JRE MMA Show #171 with Brendan Allen

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day Alright, what's happening brother? Thanks for having us My pleasure [00:16] So Jamie, what were you just saying? [00:18] I stopped you because it sounds so crazy. Trump said there's going to be eight to nine title fights at the White House UFC event. And that they're, I guess, in quotes, withholding. Okay, first of all, there's only eight weight classes. [00:31] So how's there going to be nine title fights? [00:34] Maybe a BMF fight. Maybe you have a BMF. Maybe you have all of them in the BMF. I guess, but that's kind of a crazy thing. We're going to have 20 title fights. All the title fights it's ever been. [00:46] Did he say any matchups? No, he didn't say who. He just said they're going to... I'll see if there's even a tweet about it. I just thought I'm talking about it. [00:54] I don't know, press conference or something? Well, if they don't do John Jones at the White House, I think it would be a travesty. [01:01] For sure. They need to do that. They have to. Come on. Dana's like, you can't count on them. You can't fucking count on them. Come on. Stop. When he wants to, he's going to make it happen. At the White House? Come on. Jon Jones versus... [01:14] Let's see. What does it say here? Donald Trump predicts eight or nine championship fights. [01:22] Okay. It would literally have to be every weight class fighting for the title. [01:27] which would be nuts. [01:29] Everyone's a championship fight Everyone's a legendary type of fighter He's actually holding back fights right now for six months So he can do it on the 15th of June

[01:40] Trump continued me seemingly meaning 14th of June. [01:45] Yeah. [01:46] Arena is going to be 5,000 or 6,000 seats right in the front door of the White House. [01:52] 100,000 people in the back where they're putting up eight or ten very big screens. What kind of fucking security are they going to have for this? It's got to be insane. Yeah. [02:04] Are you trying to get on this? [02:05] I mean, not really. Not really? [02:09] I can't imagine, like you said, the security, the behind the scenes, how much stuff's really going to happen. I'm just like – A lot of weird pressure too because it's like all the security and the protocols, all that extra shit in your mind before you have to go out there and fight. Yeah, it just seems like a lot, like a lot more than what it needs to be. I'm sure it's going to be cool to watch, kind of like what was the – [02:29] The sphere? Yeah, it's kind of cool to watch like that. Also, you're fighting outside. Yes! What are they going to do, put a roof over it? What happens if it's hot? [02:40] What if it's hot and muggy? That's going to affect people. I've watched them do outside fights in Louisiana. Oh, man. Oh, God. Louisiana's the – you can cut that air. You got to see everyone slipping and sliding. It's so humid. Oh, that's terrible. Did you ever see that King of the Cage fight that they did where it was raining? [02:57] I seen the highlight of it, but I never watched the whole thing. Yeah, it was called King of the Cage Wet and Wild, and it rained out. This was in the day when we used to have to put on fights at Indian casinos. I'm pretty sure Eddie Bravo was doing the commentary back then. And it rained out. And so they were like, what do you guys want to do? And everybody was like, well, we want to get paid, so I guess we have to fight. So they fought in the fucking rain. I mean, it was crazy. How do you do that? I don't remember what the canvas was made out of.

[03:27] It might have been slick, but... [03:28] It might have been like a vinyl canvas. It might not have been like a canvas like the UFC's canvas, which is actual canvas. It might have been like a jujitsu mat type situation. That's what it was in Louisiana with the humid. So I can't imagine the rain. The rain's got to be crazy. It was pouring down on people. See if you can find some highlights of King of the Cage wet and wild. It's got to be worse than blood on the canvas or blood on the vinyl. Right. It has to be. It has to be the worst. It just doesn't stop. How bad are those fucking logos? [03:58] Do the logos get problematic when they get wet? [04:02] On the canvas? Yeah, in the middle of the octagon. Here it is. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. That is like, that looks, it's hard to tell what it actually is, but it looks like vinyl. Got rubber shoes on, maybe. Yeah, these guys are fighting with shoes on, which helps a little. You see, this is back when there was like zero rules. Your man's in a poncho. My man's in a poncho. That's hilarious. Look at these. Oh, these guys are barefoot. Look at these guys sliding around. This is so crazy. They throw punches and slip it. [04:32] total like winos in a parking lot of a liquor store. Imagine everyone didn't know it was raining. Be like, man, you got rocked like 30 times. No, bro, I didn't get rocked. It was wet. Right. How do you judge? Like what shots do damage? This is like so silly. Oh, look, they got a guy come out here with a thing to slide the water off the side. Yeah, that's not helping. This is so crazy. They're doing this. Look at the fighters are helping. The fighters are moving towels around. That is so ridiculous.

[05:02] seconds break if you wipe off the canvas. Yeah, right? That's funny. That's funny. Yeah. So who knows what's going to happen? I guess they'll probably have to have some sort of a roof over it. But what if it's like 98 degrees outside? It's going to be crazy. It's June in Baltimore or in Maryland rather and you know, DC. Yeah, whatever that is. It's like DC is it's not even a state. DC gets hot. It gets hot in the summer. It's going to be crazy. I always wonder like how [05:32] the sphere for example because obviously they have everything else down to a science but maybe redo that that's gonna be crazy abu dhabi that's right we did a live one outdoor in abu dhabi i remember that that was when um bj fought frankie edgar wow yeah and anderson oh god [05:52] Damian Maia. Damian Maia, that's right. That's right. Oh, that's right. That was like Damian Anderson and Damian had real beef, and so Anderson was like yelling at him in the first round, trying to kill him in the first round, and then he kind of ran out of gas. And so he just kind of coasted for the remainder of the fight, and Dana was really pissed. [06:08] Because he just coasted and won a decision. If I could re-gate, just put that back out there. I guess, but that wasn't good, dude. By the way, in Abu Dhabi, they had... [06:18] these bugs that were flying around the size of small birds it was it was crazy i was like this is because you know you're in the desert yeah it's very weird very weird having an outdoor fight in the desert it's like mosquitoes in louisiana man they come out of swamp water and i don't know what they're doing but they're huge well back in the day they used to have fights like that in vegas they used to have boxing matches outside caesar's palace used to have them outside yeah

[06:44] See if you can find some of those... [06:46] I know, I want to think, like, they had some good fights outside, like some world championship fights that were outside Caesar's Palace. I think it would be cool to say you did, but I don't think I want to do it at this level. No, you're too close. You're too close. [07:02] Brandon Allen, you're knocking at the door, dude. You're right there. You're right there. It's crazy. I just saw Chamiya... [07:08] made a post today saying that he's only going to do one more at 85, and then he's going up. [07:13] What? Yeah, my wife sent it to me. He's going to go to 205? That's what he said. That's crazy. She translated it for me. It was in Portuguese. Oh, wow. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [07:32] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know – [07:46] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four-legged

[08:16] best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [08:29] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. [08:38] This summer, the Cup is taking over the U.S., and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat all the big matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. [09:08] to get $200 in rewards within 21 days. That's CodeRogan in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. [09:34] Let's talk about Service Titan, the AI for the trades. The trades are the backbone of this country, and for the first time, they've got technology that actually matches the work. Over 10,000 contractors already use Service Titan software to run their businesses. Built by two guys whose dads were in the trades, this isn't some tech company guessing at solutions.

[10:04] Generic Internet data. This is AI designed specifically for contracting work, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls while you sleep, dispatching your texts, helping you run your back office, growing your revenue. One platform, fully automated, always learning, always improving. Every other industry is still trying to figure out AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. [10:34] It's servicetitan.ai. Look at this. That's Caesar's spouse. Dang. Yeah, that's crazy. I never knew that. Never. Yeah. Wow. They had big fights there, too. [10:47] Look at how big that is. Oh, my God. That's so crazy. But, again, Vegas outside must be so hot. It has to be. That dry heat is something. [10:57] That's crazy. Imagine being all the way in the back of that thing. You ain't seeing nothing. They don't got no screen up for the TV or nothing. [11:03] Who was that right there? Who was that? Oh, Tommy Hearns fought there. Roberto Durant. Tommy Hearns and Roberto Durant was outside? Dang. That's crazy. [11:12] In 1984. [11:14] Wow. [11:15] That's way before my time. Way before. I guess they probably didn't even have an arena back then that could keep those guys in it. [11:23] I wonder when they started putting arenas in Vegas. [11:26] That's a good question. It probably started for those big boxing matches. [11:33] Yeah, ask Perplexity, our sponsor. When did they start putting an arena in Vegas?

[11:38] I'm going to say... [11:40] 90. [11:44] Because I think Vegas in the beginning was just all about gambling and if there was a show is that a showroom in Vegas like Yeah, you know if you went to see Sinatra or something like that was probably just a couple thousand people probably wasn't that big It's crazy to see it like how Vegas is growing like even like before my time I see pictures, but even since like I fought in [12:02] Amateur Worlds in Vegas. I wasn't even old enough to go in the casino, so they had to walk me around in the Flamingo, I believe. Oh, that's crazy. You couldn't go in the casino? I couldn't do nothing. If I walked on the floor, they were on me. I'm like, bro, I don't – How old were you? [12:16] 18? Oh, wow. 17, 18? No, 18, yeah. 18, about 10, 19. And man, they were on me. I'm talking about like, they must have had a watch on me. I stepped on the floor just to go across to get like to the drink machine. Well, it was probably a big concern that if you have underage competitors and that they're wandering around the casino, they could lose their license. Yeah, because we stayed at the link. [12:39] It was brand new at the time. And then we walked across the Flamingo. We fought there every time until the finals. The finals was in the UFC Expo in the middle of the expo, which was cool because they had like the Hall of Fame ceremony going on. You were there. I've seen you. Yeah. Yeah. So it was cool. But yeah, it's crazy just to see it from there till now, like how much it's growing and change. Wow. It's pretty crazy. When did you first start training? How old were you? 13. And what did you start with? Jiu-Jitsu. [13:07] I didn't even like [13:08] really mean to to be honest like I was playing football I love football and um

[13:12] my brother came home because he switched schools and his friend was like hey you want to do jiu-jitsu and we was watching you know ufc on the weekends i was like [13:18] Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell Trilogy, all those guys. So we watched them on the weekends and – [13:25] He asked, so we went there and looked, and I was still playing football. It was football season, and... [13:30] My dad's like, you want to try it? I was like, I watched the class and I was like, dad. [13:33] I want to do it. [13:34] And he's like, okay, we'll use the trial gear. I was like, Dad, I don't want to borrow a gear. Can you buy me one? My parents didn't have much money. My dad was just starting to do... [13:41] okay for himself at that point he's like if i buy you this gi i promise you for the rest of the year you're coming three times a week at least i was like yes sir so i started and never looked back a couple months later my brother and my dad joined me and we did it all together for a [13:58] He went his way. So, yeah, it's been a long road. That's derailed a lot of young prospects. [14:05] It definitely got him. It definitely got him, man. That life took him elsewhere. And I don't know. Luckily, I stayed. He would have been better than me, though. He was a lot tougher. Yeah, but it's a lot. Is he the older brother? It's usually the younger brother that winds up being the real good fighter. Yeah, he beat me up a lot. That's the thing. That's the thing. You learn resilience. You learn how to be the nail. Yeah. [14:28] brother oftentimes is too comfortable being the hammer. [14:31] Yeah, but my dad would put him in his place. So luckily he was used to being in there a little bit too. You know? My dad's a big man, so... [14:39] Yeah, man. Life is crazy. So when did you start striking? Well, my dad boxed when he was younger.

[14:46] and his grandfather taught him how to box, and he was like a... [14:50] Thank you. [14:50] He did something like one like a Golden Gloves in the military or something back when they had like the boxing gloves that were made of like horse hair. Oh, wow. Yeah. So he taught my dad to box. And so my dad boxed in high school. So he was kind of teaching me a little stuff here and there growing up. But you know how it is, man. Who listens to their father? Now I look back and I'm like, man, I wish I would have listened more. And I say stuff that he was like – [15:12] What I told you 10 years ago. But I started striking probably like... [15:18] 15 maybe 15 and a half somewhere around there but it was all grown men back then especially like where i came up at there's no like beginners classes or anything like that and these guys are 24 25 26 i mean there's been a couple of times man i got hit and i thought my jaw was broken i start crying [15:33] I mean like smack and it was just like [15:35] I couldn't open my mouth. That's the problem with a lot of boxing gyms in particular is that when new guys come in, they just beat them up. [15:44] Yeah, they did. They beat me up. They don't box you, like spar you rather. They fight you. And they know how to fight and you don't know how to fight. You know, one of my best friends who was with me, like I started with him, was Kurt Hollibaugh. And him and Dustin Poirier were the two biggest where we were from at that time. So I remember Tim Crater reached out to Kurt. Crazy Tim. Yeah. And he was like, hey, why don't y'all come spar? We got Dustin. I think Dustin was just about to go. [16:10] to WEC or he was, he was right around there at that time. So we're like, let's go. Kurt's like, Hey, you want to go? Yeah, let's go. So we go over there for sparring and I'm sparring this guy, man. He had to be like,

[16:22] 5'1", like he was tiny, short. [16:25] and Kurt [16:27] Goes with Dustin. And I'm sitting here trying to watch them go because, I mean, they're throwing. They're fighting. They're not sparring. And this guy is hitting me. I'm like, get off me. Like trying to watch. And the same day, like, so we sparred like, I don't know, four or five rounds. It was nice. And then I'm only like 14, 15 years old at this time. And then it was start on the ground in your guard. [16:49] And I go with Dustin because everyone said my jiu-jitsu was good. It was for that time, but I was still just a kid. Dude, he hit me so hard when they said – literally, when they said go, it was like – [16:59] boom, right in my mouth. And I was like, [17:02] Well, I guess this is what we're doing. I hurried up and grabbed and tried to sweep and all that kind of stuff. But, man, I never forget that moment to this day. Like, last time I trained with Dustin, I was like, hey, remember that time you beat me up? Like, I'm not little no more. You're three weight classes above him. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I see all the guys like that. There's one guy in particular. If I see him, I told everyone I'm whooping his ass. One guy you don't want to name him? His name is J-Mart. Oh, okay. Great guy. Nice guy. But training, I never forget the day he hit me so hard and thought my jaw was broken. [17:32] I'm like, and I was little, like... [17:34] Now I'm a grown man. It is so hard to find, like, reasonable sparring. It's so hard to find people that are, like, willing to not hit you full blast and, like, preserve each other. You know, like, hey, we're all in this together. You help me. I help. And if you can get that, my God, you progress so much faster. Yes. If you're in there just – there's something to be said for going through the fire and understand what it's like to be in a war with guys.

[18:04] Also to be said for like learning how to recover and like having more training sessions and not getting concussions all the time. Yeah. It's like Sean Jordan was the first to tell me that. [18:16] was like, he came and trained, and obviously, you know, Sean's huge, super athletic guy, heavyweight, you know, and I'm talking about, I watched him and this other big man, they were sparring, and it was literally like touching each other, so I asked him after, because everyone else is... [18:31] fighting and I'm like man what how come you don't spar so hard and [18:35] He looked at me and started laughing. He's like... [18:38] Runnin'. [18:39] At this time, I think it was like 270, somewhere around there. And he's like, I'm 270 pounds. I fought some of the biggest guys, like biggest names in the world at the time. He's like, I know how to fight. [18:50] If I go full blast or he goes full blast, one of us is going to get hurt, and then we're not going to fight anymore. Like we're not going to make money for our family. So I always took that in, and obviously I'm not like – [19:00] a huge guy like they were but it's like even like when i was training in florida [19:04] I knew when me and RoboCop go, we're fighting. Like, I know it. That guy's scary. You know? Both you guys, like, how the fuck are you making 185 pounds? And you're on a smaller side in comparison to him. [19:17] Yeah, dude, it's my weight cuts way harder than his. Is it? Yeah, he walks. Dude, surprisingly, I asked him before because he has, you know, he has a great like physique, right? He's big guy. When I see him, I'm like, bro, how much you weigh? He's like, oh, like two or five. I said, no way. [19:32] no way he's like i'll step on the scale right now steps on the scale [redacted address] how does he got bird bones that doesn't even make any sense i have no idea i thought the same thing but me i step on the scale i mean right now i'm probably like 225 but i haven't done nothing since i fought but i stay around 215 220 and i'm the runt of my family so like my body wants to get bigger but i'm like uh i got unfinished business here so yeah joe's joe's a

[19:57] A big 85-er. Joe Pfeiffer. Oh, yeah. He's a huge 85-er. He's huge. He has a hard cut. That's why I'm like, when he gets. Yeah, like, how is that guy? How is that guy 185? When I stand next to him, I'm like, how? Same. I can't believe he walks around 205 because that doesn't even make sense. That's what I've seen him at. Hey, if it's a lie, guys, strike me down now because. I think he rigged that scale. Well, we were all using it. He probably had his heels on the ground. There he was. I was super surprised. [20:27] We was all in the room and I was like, [20:28] Because I called him out on it. Everyone else wouldn't say it. I was like... [20:31] Was it after training? After training. Okay, and both of you after training. Yeah, but it wasn't a hard day like that day was not a hard day like we weren't like [20:39] sweating it wasn't like a five six pound practice day right it was a pretty chill day and even if it was i'd still be surprised if he was only 211 i'd be surprised dude but i know like when he had other fights uh he was a little bit bigger because he wanted to be i didn't understand but still that you know [20:56] But I think... [20:57] Well, the Ritter probably has to be the biggest 85er. He's enormous. He was bigger than I expected. And I seen him, but in the gym, I never went close to him because I – [21:07] I rode with him like one time in a... [21:09] quick thing it was like a minute long but like still I was surprised when we stepped in there like we stood up to each other at face-offs and I was like I was expecting to be a little bit bigger I don't know maybe I make everyone bigger in my head but he was really long like even when we stood next to each other his hands felt like they touched his knees I was like

[21:26] All right, it's going to be interesting. Yeah, I was surprised when I first met him in the UFC. When he first came over, I was like, because I saw him fight and won, and I knew he fought at, I believe he fought at 205 and 85 over there, right? Right. And when I saw him, I was like, how the fuck are you making 185 pounds? Like, you look like a light heavyweight. This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. A nice, cold, happy dad is low carbonation, gluten-free, and is easy to drink. No bloating, no nonsense. [21:56] When you're watching a football game or you're golfing, watching a fight with your boys or out on the lake, these moments call for a cold Happy Dad. People are drinking all these seltzers and skinny cans that are loaded with sugar. But Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in a normal-sized can. You can buy Happy Dad on the GoPuff app and your local liquor and grocery store, including Walmart, Kroger, Total Wine, and Circle K. [22:26] and Wild Cherry. They also have a great flavor in collaboration with Death Row Records and Snoop Dogg. They have their new lemonade coming out as well. Visit HappyDad.com for a limited time offer and use code ROGAN to buy one Happy Dad trucker hat and get one free. Enjoy a cold Happy Dad. Must be of legal drinking age. Please drink responsibly. Happy Dad Hard Seltzer Tea and Lemonade is a malt

[22:56] I was worried about that when he came over because he never made a real true 85 because you know they have the hydration. The hydration. So he can weigh in at 204 but fully hydrated. And they still know how to finesse that. Like I just learned like how they finesse that. How they finesse that. So they drink a whole bunch of water. [23:12] And then they go, they don't pee, they don't do nothing. They drink that water and then go cut the weight. It stays in their stomach, so when they piss... [23:17] piss it out [23:19] It's clear. It's all good. So they test that hydration. They test that they're hydrated, but they're really not. Oh. They already went and sweat out a whole bunch. So they drink it. They just hold it. That's how all the guys do it. Some guys mess it up, but that's the majority how everyone does it. And so they – So you just drink a whole ton of water and just hold your piss as long as possible? Yeah. They make sure – [23:39] They probably drink like two cups. [23:41] And then they're just going to hold. And then they'll go cut for like an hour, like sweat, sweat, sweat, sweat, sweat. And then they say when they show up to the hydration, I've heard that from like four people that have done it. And they said, yeah, bro, I learned from this guy. And I learned from this guy. I was like, wow. Interesting. I knew there had to be some sort of a catch to it. Yeah. And they say it's a lot. [24:00] more unhealthy than like cutting weight over here to like really make the weight because it i don't know i'm not a scientist or a doctor but they they my friends that are into all that stuff are like explaining like how it works and i was like man that's crazy and but he was a guy that never made a true 186 so they were worried and then he did and i know like i know for a fact he's coming i don't know what he came in on my fight week but i think uh the one before that he he came in

[24:26] Monday, I believe, at 210. [24:28] 210 the fight week. So I was like, shit, I come in at 206 and I'm stressing. I'm like, ah, 203 is like my number. Well, I think that contributes to the fact that he gasses. [24:38] I think it's just too much of a strain. And he's talked kind of vaguely, not real clearly, about problems that he's had with his health. And I've got to think that has to do with weight cuts. So many guys have kidney problems. For sure. For sure. And it's weird because in the fight with him, I knew in the first round – [25:00] To feel like, obviously, adrenaline is flowing in everything. So even everything's intensified, right? So I could feel how tight he was squeezing. Right. [25:09] I mean he was squeezing like his legs everything he was trying to where I couldn't move so I just make little adjustments and make him move a little bit he'd punch very rarely but I was like there's impossible it's impossible for you to keep this up for 25 minutes it's impossible I know you're not going to do it so just bide my time um [25:28] Plus, I didn't want to gas either because it was short for me, short notice, five rounds. It was a little worrisome, but I knew he couldn't. [25:35] I knew we couldn't. And, um, [25:37] I'm, [25:38] Like we did a lot of – [25:40] print for him specifically and we saw the Russian that he fought and won [25:44] And I was like, we had our game plan before we watched it, and then we watched it, and it was like... [25:48] Here we go. Yeah. That's why everyone asks me, like, what's going to happen? I'm going to break him. [25:52] He's tough. He is tough. But... [25:54] Well, if he comes out with that mentality, if he's trying to go full blast 100% in the first round in a five-round fight, like, whee. Right, exactly. Nobody can really do that. Yeah, and like I told the guys, like…

[26:06] Because obviously he trains where I was training. And they all know me. You know? So it's like... [26:13] If you think you're going to come out here and it, [26:15] And he said in his interviews, like, I'm a frontrunner. I'm not good long, but I approach a three-round fight differently than I approach a five-round fight. [26:22] So I was like... [26:24] All right. We'll see. And it kind of backfired. Well, it was a big win for you. Thank you. Huge win. You look fantastic in that fight. Thank you. You know, it's like there's just so many talented people in the division. It's so hard. [26:36] to stand out. [26:37] And sometimes, you know, you take a guy like Derrida who just got done stopping Bo Nickel and a lot of a lot of momentum on his side. He looks real good. You beat Kevin Holland, submitted him, looks real good. And then you came along and stole that momentum. Yeah, it was it was weird, to be honest, because, like, when he got there, I was like, I want to fight him just because, like, things of like he fought one of my friends, which now I guess they're best friends. But who was that? Ong Launson. OK. He took both his titles from him. Right. So, like. [27:05] There was no animosity, but it's like, I want to test my... You're a ground guy? Like, I'm a ground guy? Let's see. Um... [27:11] And then it happened. He got there to UFC and I was like, I want to fight him. [27:15] Like I was obviously, I think at the time I was like 12. [27:18] Ranked somewhere around there. But I was like, let him get one, two... [27:23] And obviously his name is going to... [27:24] carry them, you know? So that came and I never forget. I was, uh, leaving an LSU game, [27:31] I was in the parking lot [27:34] My manager called. [27:36] And I was like, man, can we just get a fight, please? I've been asking for like three months. Like, please, I just want to fight because I'm very like –

[27:42] I get in this mode to where I just want to fight, and I'll just keep bugging him. Bugging him. Like, hey, you want me to call Mick? You want me to call Hunter? Like, and he was like, no, no, no, no. But anyway, so I stayed on him. He called me. I was like, hey, what about – [27:56] The Ritter. [27:59] He was like, come on, man. He had just fought. I think he beat Gerald. And he was like, [28:05] I think I can make this happen. He texted me back a couple minutes. Hey, they're good to go. The next day they called back and they were like, no, they're not going to get the fight. Like they don't want this fight. It's not the right time. I was like, all right. They're like, what about Fluffy? I was like, I asked for him two months ago. So that's when I ended up fighting Fluffy. And, um... [28:22] It just so happened he fought the Bo Nickel, got all that hype, and... [28:26] I don't know man again. I was at an LSU practice and they called me and they're like hey my manager called me and he's like I [28:35] Just want you to know Fluffy's out. I threw your name in the hat, but you're not the frontrunner. It's Paulo Costa. He's the frontrunner, but I'm pushing for you because I just saw Paulo yesterday. I don't know how he's going to make 85 in four weeks. Yeah, he needs a lot of time to make weight. He's another guy at 185. Do you think that it could ever be possible for guys to just fight without cutting weight? [28:58] Wouldn't that be better? It would be nice. [29:02] Just wouldn't it be better overall for everybody? I think so, yeah, for sure. If everybody just was honest about what they actually weigh – [29:11] You know, like, let's find out what everybody actually weighs when you're in shape, like, when you're ready to fight.

[29:17] Make a contract to fight it that way because this whole weight cutting thing is just legalized cheating. It's so hard, and some guys are so good at it. Like how about Pereira? [29:27] Dude, I don't know how he made 85. He would weigh 226 when he would fight for the 185-pound title. Crazy. Doesn't even make any sense. I don't get how you can put on that much weight. The most I ever put on was his last fight. I was 207. Bro, he gained 40-something pounds. I don't get it. 40 pounds. [29:45] In a day? Blows my mind. What does that feel like? Like, what does that do to your body? I always wonder that because, like, this one was tough for me. [29:53] One month, full diet. I don't usually have a couple of cheats and ease into the diet. I'm starting to do now because I'm hoping to fight in March. So I'm already going to start being cleaner. Are you concerned, though, that you could get another of those last-minute calls? Do you think like that, to not get too heavy? Because if somebody calls and says, hey, the big Paramount card, somebody fell out. It's January. Can you fight? I think where I'm at, it would have to be like – [30:21] interim title or something like that [30:23] outside of that right now, plus like... [30:27] The reason I'm so big and I was out, like I had fractures in my foot, so I had to... [30:31] Did you have fractures in your foot from the fight or just you had them before the fight? Oh, God. Yeah, which we didn't know. I just knew it hurt. [30:39] To be honest with you, like, I had him before the fight before that. [30:43] But I didn't know. I was just like, man, it hurts. I thought it was just like a muscle, so I just would roll it out, theragun it. That's what I would do. How many fractures? They said they saw three, but they're small.

[30:55] There's like different like rate where like the toe meets the base of your foot. Is it from elbows? [31:01] I don't know. I don't, [31:02] It was on my lead foot too. So I was like, I don't even know. Like I don't teep a lot because I'm scared of like stuff like that. Yeah. Um... [31:09] Yeah, but I fought with crazy stuff, man. I tore my whole, like... [31:13] ACL in half, calves, everything when I fought Paul Craig. Did you really? Yeah, when that calf slicer? Uh-huh. In half. [31:22] It just blew your ACL out. Yes. Oh, God. I didn't know. So like in the second round when I go to throw the punch, I think it was Dominic Cruz. He was like, oh, they clipped each other and they showed the replay and he hits my hand. He never hit like my face or anything. But your knee just buckled. Yeah, it gave. And you can see me reach down to my knee. [31:38] In that moment. Oh, wow. It was crazy. So afterwards we got that. But I was lucky like when it healed it like – [31:45] It fell to the bone. Like if they attach like up here, mine just reattached here. So I just have a little bit more play and it's still attached. Luckily. Really? Yeah, that's how it healed. So you never got surgery? Never. I was very lucky. Insane. There's like three different MRIs that show like fine, torn in half, rehealed. So it was a partial tail? No, they told me it was in half. It cut in half and then like fell. And when it fell, I got lucky and it fell on the bone just lower at a lower point. [32:15] And it healed on the bone? And it fused to the bone itself. What? Yes. How long did it take to do that? I don't know. The doctor said it looked like it was torn maybe like a slight tear before, and that one finished it. And the last MRI was...

[32:29] probably four or five months ago because I had to get it for something else. Mm-hmm. [32:34] fused to the bone perfect you can see it clear as day the doctor showed me i was like that's pretty cool did you get stem cells or anything on it yeah i did i did i did do a lot of stem cells uh like to the ufc and stuff they sent me that that probably helped it was going on to you wanna no they sent it to my doctor no they just oh they just sent it it was nice and they just sent a whole bunch like my doctor was like man look how much they sent i was like i don't know what it's supposed to look like fill it up let's go so we injected that but yeah i fight with all crazy stuff because [33:04] People need to realize that watch. Nobody fights at 100% or very few people. Very, very rarely. And I just don't know how to pull. Like I've never pulled from one – knock on wood. I haven't pulled on one fight in my career. And I've been pretty messed up. I think my worst was when I fought Emovolve, to be honest. Physically, I was like – as far as like how my body was, was pretty good. But I didn't realize like how much of a toll because I like have a thyroid problem. And I – [33:30] I went years without getting it checked. And, um, for like a while I was feeling like real sluggish, real tired. Um, no sex drive, nothing like, uh, [33:39] I didn't want to get out of bed. And, um, [33:42] my weight was just [33:43] steady growing up for the first time in my life at that point i hit 220 and i was like [33:47] What is going on? Like I'm still training. I'm eating clean. And anyway, I went to a specialist in Florida. [33:54] and they tested everything like T3, T4, and I never had T3 checked ever. And it was like seven times the normal value, whatever that was supposed to be. I have it on a paper, whatever. They gave me that and they were like, Hey man, I'm going to let you know. I was, I was fighting in three, three or four weeks in France. And they were like, Hey, this is going to take a month and a half, two months to regulate and fully settle out. I was like, I don't got that kind of time. Just give me enough to where my, where my weight will come down. Cause I wasn't losing

[34:24] Don't worry. Within a week or two, that's going to happen. [34:26] I was still pretty tired, but I just kept pushing. We went to London first, stayed there a week because it was cheaper for us than going to France because my friend had family there. Then we went to France, and then I was still feeling tired. That was the first camp in my life I couldn't do more than two and a half rounds, the whole camp. Really? [34:48] Bysenger was the only person that I had to train with. Greg was hurt. Other guys were out, so I had Bysenger every day. [34:56] whenever I wanted sparring anything. And ask him, [35:01] I do good for the first round halfway through the second after that. [35:05] I was dead. Like dead. [35:07] And I'm still hitting my runs, my lifts, every training session. I'm doing everything normal. [35:13] But man, it was terrible. So the fight comes and – [35:18] they'd the [35:19] the commission kind of like did super weird stuff. Like I made weight and then like, Oh, you're getting drug tests. I'm like, okay, no problem. [35:26] They're like, no, no, no, you're going to get drug tested now. [35:28] Not the night of the fight like normal. I was like, what? I was like, I literally just cut weight. Like, I don't got to pee. [35:34] I'm just now drinking fluid. They're like, doesn't matter. You can go to your room. [35:38] I was like, all right, I'll wait for a couple minutes. I waited for like 10 minutes. I was like, hey, man, I'm just going to go to my room, try to sleep. And they were like – [35:46] No, we don't have enough people. You need to stay here. I stayed there for two hours. They did – finally I peed, just barely. Peed, and they did two vials of blood. And they got mad because they did that one they put on in press, the gravity one, and they couldn't get enough.

[36:01] Like, and they were like, because you're dehydrated. Exactly. Do you think they were fucking with you because you were fighting in France against a French guy? It was me and Moicano. We were the, us two and one other person, American. Was that when Moicano was fighting Benoit Saint-Denis? Yes, sir. He bitched about the same thing, but somehow he had to. They were fucking with you guys. Them two were up sleeping in their room, chilling. Oh, that's so. But it's not an excuse. It does not have to be an excuse. That's so dirty. It was, it was, it was frustrating. But that's why I like when, I still think he involves a cool guy, you know? [36:31] deserved his title shot i think he's fully earned it don't get me wrong but i i want to fight him again where it's like i sparred him like a month after that he was at the gym and i showed up at [36:40] We sparred. We had a good time. But I still think he's a nice guy. I think he deserved a spot. But I just want to fight him where everything's – [36:47] Equal and like you said, we're not gonna come in 100% he's not I'm not fine. I don't care if I got a Messed up hand foot whatever but just an equal plate like well, it just sounds like you were compromised look a good example That was pure your honest first fight with Merab Man, he looked great this week. Fuck what a master class. He looked great. I'm surprised when you're gonna fight a guy like Merab like I [37:11] That is the master class. But you put on a clinic. I didn't. Honestly, like, I didn't think he was going to be able to do that for five rounds. I thought he'd have one, maybe max two. And I thought Merab was just going to do what Merab does. I was so wrong. Bro, his training camp must have been hell. Had to. Had to be hell. Had to. Had to be. I mean, he must have done some. I mean, it looked like it. I saw some videos of it. He was doing some wild strength and conditioning and plyometrics. And he knew what he was in for. That's the thing. If you're going to fight a guy like Merab, it's like, you know what the mountain is.

[37:41] You ready to climb it? For sure. And the first time they fought, apparently he had a fucked up right hand. That's what I heard. And he couldn't grapple with it and he couldn't throw punches with it. So I rewatched the fight after he said that. I was like, oh, he's barely using it. Like barely using his right hand. Made sense, right? Totally makes sense. And then also psychologically, if you only got one hand, everything. Now you have to think. Right. You can't really throw combinations. You have to think. Can't grab. [38:04] I want to know how tough Uriah Faber is. Uriah Faber, when he fought Mike Brown, he broke both hands. Both hands. I remember that fight. And he was throwing elbows. Both hands. He was one of my favorite fighters. He was a guy that I wanted to be just like. You could ask my dad. He'll laugh to this day. I was like, Dad, I don't want to be like my dad's tall. Everyone's tall. I don't want to be tall. I want to be like him. He was like, what? Because that was the fight. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. [38:34] Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. That's it. Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. Just set the temp, load the grill, and let Traeger handle the rest.

[39:04] If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [39:10] This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. They're the smarter option when it comes to home security because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts. There's also no long-term contracts and no technician appointments. [39:40] system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com slash rogan. That's half off at simplisafe.com slash rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. [40:10] He was a beast. He was a beast back in the day. By the time he was fighting in the UFC, I kind of think he had had some of his best fights already. Like in the WEC days. Dude, amazing fights. He was a killer. I still remember the Mike Brown coming out party. Jose Aldo. That was another example of how tough he is. When he fought Jose Aldo, Jose Aldo killed his leg, dude. Killed his leg. It is the worst after-fight leg I've ever seen in my life.

[40:40] Yeah. [40:40] Other than Austin Hubbard. You ever see Austin Hubbard? He got compartment syndrome and had to have his whole leg sliced open from the top to the bottom to alleviate pressure and drain some of the fluids. No way. It's the nastiest injury I've ever seen. Google, excuse me, look up Austin Hubbard images of, I forget the fight. [41:01] Oh, there it is. [41:02] Look at his leg. That black thing, that's his leg open. No way. Yeah, that's his tissue. Right. [41:08] Oh, my days. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at that. Oh, my gosh. How insane is that? Dude, he trains in Chicago with me. Oh, when I ask him. Look at that image. I got to ask him. How fucking insane is that image? That's his tissue underneath there, man. Oh, my days. Look, you have to, like, mature content. You have to click a link. [41:25] and Instagram to be able to see it. Holy cow. How nuts is that, man? Dude, that's gnarly. So there's a drain, that tube that you're seeing right there. What that is attached to is that drain that's letting liquid drip out of his leg. So compartment syndrome is so bad that sometimes people, when they don't get it treated, they have to get their leg amputated. Really? Oh, yeah. So that was just from leg kicks from a fight? Just from leg kicks from a fight. Wow. I'm trying to remember who he fought. Jesus. Can we find out who he fought? [41:55] It was a year ago. [41:57] Oh, more than a year ago. [41:58] This picture was 325 weeks ago. Yeah, but the fight was more than a year ago. [42:04] It was quite a while ago. [42:06] But what? Is it like a big bruise? Well, it says 325 weeks ago. Oh, 300. Yeah. 325 weeks ago. Yeah.

[42:17] Um, so it was quite a while ago, but I see if you find out who he fought boy. It's just like your leg just stays like bruised and swollen and you're like, not just bruised. Like your tissue breaks down. It fills up with fluid. And yeah. And then also what happens, I guess, when you get that much damage in your tissue is like your whole body has to process all of that. So Kyle. [42:39] I don't remember that. So it was UFC Vancouver. Pass down on an elevator. Had to be rushed to the hospital. That is crazy. I never knew that. Yeah. [42:49] See him at the gym all the time. He's a nice guy, too. So they had to cut his leg open to reduce the pressure. So that's what that image is. [42:56] Damn. Nuts. [42:57] That is crazy. [42:59] That was nuts. And then Uriah's leg, honestly, in the fight looked worse than that. [43:04] I mean, Uriah might have had compartment syndrome and didn't get it drained. Because I know he spent a lot of time in hyperbaric chambers after the fight. I want to try that. It's great. [43:14] I want to try that. It's really amazing. If you have an aura ring and you go into the hyperbaric chamber, it will tell you that you're recovered more. Really? Yeah, than a normal day. Yeah. Oh, you have a very high level of recovery today. Yeah. I want to try that for sure. Oh, it's legit. Yeah. All my friends have been like – like Jared Gordon got one for one of his fights. He was telling me how different it makes him feel and stuff. For me, as far as I go, it's like I just started really using more supplements. [43:40] I think the deal that Thorne made with UFC really helped me. It was like I started using there. And what really helped us – I was always scared to go on creatine because like growing up my dad would get so big and he would like –

[43:49] back in the day they'd have like all these different things like oh if you use too much creatine it's bad for you bad for your kidneys or whatever turns out all that's bullshit exactly yeah and creatine's fantastic for it and that's [44:00] That's been the main thing. I can really feel how different my body recovers, how more... [44:07] almost energized in a way you know i wake up and like when i go to lift and stuff i feel like way better so like what's even great for your mind creatine is fantastic just for cognitive support i need everything for that i've been getting hit in the head since i was 13 years old so you know yeah it don't sometimes it don't function properly you know i have to it's funny me and my wife were just joking the other day we were like uh i was like babe you do that on purpose don't you she's like what i was like you try to use memory against me you'll wait till i [44:37] remember you said this? And I'm like, I didn't say that. I have to die on that hill because it's like, I don't remember, but I don't tell her that. I'm just like, no, I didn't. I know I didn't. But yeah, that was a great relationship that's helped. UFC's made a lot of good partnerships that's helped the athletes. But for me personally, the Thorne relationship- Yeah, Thorne makes great stuff. Yeah, and they're so tested. If you get in a hyperbaric chamber, it'll help your memory as well. Hyperbaric chamber is just

[45:07] Even a study out of Jerusalem, it shows that Langston's telomeres, they did this process where they had... [45:13] You took 60 sessions of 90 minutes over the course of 90 days. So 60 hour and a half sessions over the course of 90 days, and it showed the length in people's telomeres. Really? Yeah, that was equal to a 20-year age difference. So, yeah, 20-year age difference. So it's like your telomeres as you get older, that's like one of the clear marks of biological aging is how long your telomeres are. [45:39] That's good to know. Yeah, it indicates, you know, like as you get older, they shrink. And there's a few things that they've shown that will increase telomeres, but nothing as dramatically that I've ever heard other than the hyperbaric chamber. That was probably the best one I've ever heard of, yeah. Man, I've been like trying to learn more about recovery because I'm kind of like – How old are you now? I'll be 30 in a couple weeks. Yeah, that's when you've got to start thinking about it. When you're 22, you're just a wild man. You wake up in the morning with rock-hard boners. Like everything's fine. [46:09] show up to training, you don't even stretch. Now I'm like, wait a minute, guys. Wait a minute. The thing is, even if you're 22, you should stretch. That's just youthful ignorance. God, there's so many guys that can't... I remember I was talking to... I don't want to say his name because he's a good guy, but he's like a world-class MMA fighter, and I was trying to show him something. We were talking about guard technique, and he's like, [46:29] I can't – and I'm not flexible. I can't get my leg like that. [46:32] And I go, what do you mean not flex? I go, why aren't you flexible? He goes, I don't stretch. I go, how do you not stretch?

[46:38] You're a world-class fighter who tries to kick people in the head, and you don't stretch? That's so crazy. He's like, it's boring. I'm like, okay. A lot of things are boring. That you don't stretch is so crazy because anytime someone says, I'm not flexible, I'm like, how do you know? [46:57] Right. You know, like you don't know if you're flexible until you start stretching for a long fucking time. Right. You can get flexible. It's like, I don't have any cardio. Well, you can get cardio. That's a choice. Fucking work. Get do cardio and you'll have cardio. This is crazy. But you're really flexible. [47:15] Yeah, but it's like I'd never stop, but I started when I was little. I developed flexibility while my body was still maturing, which is very fortunate because you're not like stiff yet. It's like you can get flexible early, but – [47:27] I'm 58 years old. It's not easy to stay flexible. I just keep fucking stretching. I didn't know you were 58. I'm old as shit, dude. I didn't know that. I thought you were younger than that. You older than my dad. I'm old, dude. You're in good shape, though. Thank you. I keep up. I'm scared of death. I'm not scared of death. Death is inevitable. What I'm scared of is... [47:45] being feeble, like where you can't do things anymore. You can't go on a hike. You can't use your body. Like I work out just as hard now as I did when I was 30. I make my wife always worried because I'm like – [47:58] I don't know. I don't honestly know if I mean it or not. I'm like, I don't want to be 80 years old. Like, for instance, like. You cannot not say things like that around ladies sometimes. They don't like. She's like, she's like, no, I don't say that. I need you. Like, we're a team. And I'm like, babe, look what I do for a living. Look what I've done. Like, my body's not like that. Like, you know, and like, I don't know, maybe.

[48:21] I say that, but then I get out of working out for – I haven't worked out in like two months, and I'm like – I'm itching like a freaking fiend. I'm like – So when you say I haven't worked out, you don't do anything for two months? I haven't done anything. I went in the gym twice. I went in the gym twice. I did one run and one lift. [48:36] And then we found out my foot had fractures and they sent me this foot boot. And then the doctor was like, you don't have to wear that, but don't do anything that puts a lot of pressure on your foot. Then I've been traveling. Like at the end of the year, I travel a lot going hunting and stuff and, you know. [48:49] Like your meat eater thing. I love that kind of stuff. So I'm not on that big of a scale and that nice of animals. I'm just a simple whitetail kind of guy. I love hunting whitetails. I love it. I got a little property in Illinois. Oh, that's great, man. So I can't believe that you could take a whole couple of months off with nothing. Just don't do nothing. Crazy, right? Yeah. I'm very blessed. [49:12] Well, it's probably smart. It's probably smart to do. It's good and bad. A few people do that. It's good and bad. So like I only do it this much at the end of the year because it's hunting season and holidays and my kids' birthdays and, you know, kind of my kids' birthdays are right now or back to – well, shit, I guess all the time. They're back to back to back. So it's like, all right, we'll do that. We travel. But it's only end of the year.

[49:42] home. I'm a full-time dad and a full-time husband at home right now. Um, got so many kids, you know, they, they, [49:48] I'm away for so long. How many kids do you have? I'm about to have five. Wow. Yeah. Five, and you're not even 30 yet. Yes, sir. I have two with my ex- [49:57] I'm about to have two with my current wife, and she has a son from her previous stepson. Wow. Yeah. And he's 14. My daughter has just turned six and four. My son is about to turn one, and then we'll have another one in about a month and a half. So you've got a lot of work to do. Yeah, but it's nice. It's hard right now. Kids have schedules, and now my little girls do jiu-jitsu. My stepson was playing football for the first time this year, and he's a basketball player because my wife was a pro basketball player. [50:27] So he's always got something going on, but at my new house that I'm working to build, I have like two gyms, full gyms, so like I don't have to leave. Oh, that's nice. I can bring people in to train. I have my full cage that I used to have for my promotion. Well, even if you only realize I only have 40 minutes before I have to leave. [50:44] But I can get a half-hour workout on real quick, and you can really burn it out for a half an hour just to keep the machine oiled. Exactly. But the argument about taking time off, it does reset the brain. Do you know who used to do that? I know he's not a fighter, but Ronnie Coleman. [50:59] Ronnie Coleman is crazy as he used to lift when he was Mr. Olympia, and he was one of the heaviest lifters of all time. I mean, he would do – He's a freak. He's a freak. [51:08] Ronnie, when he would get done with Mr. Olympia, he would be like, I'm not doing shit. He wouldn't do anything for a couple months.

[51:14] Like, no training at all. And they'd be like, nothing at all? You're like, nope, nothing. [51:17] Nothing. Yeah. He goes, I got to reset. Got to reset. But imagine being so driven that you could train the way that guy trained. [51:25] And yet so wise that you're like... [51:28] I'll get it back. Let me just like – let me just chill. Yeah. Let me just chill. That's what it feels like. It wasn't like it turned him into a lazy person. Like that's what everyone is afraid of. Oh, I'm going to lose this momentum. I'm doing so good. Everything is going so great. I'm working so hard. I want to keep working hard because we've all had – [51:45] If you will live a life... [51:48] You're going to have ups and you're going to have downs. And like you were going through your thyroid issue, there's going to be times where you don't have a lot of energy. So when you're feeling good, you want to keep going. Right. And this guy gets to Mr. Olympia, but he has the wisdom to go, you know what? I can get that back right now. Let's just not do shit and let this – [52:06] Let this mind recover. Let this stress just go away. Let it slip out of my life. That's what I try, man. I kind of learned, because I always have traveled for camp since I was... [52:18] Thank you. [52:19] Probably three or four and one as a pro. Three or four fights in as a pro. I was traveling. I was going to Rufus Sport for a long time. I stayed there for a long time. Then I went to Florida for a long time. And now I'm not Chicago. [52:32] And always. What Jimmy are you going to know? Valley Flow. Oh, okay. And like War Room with Bilal Muhammad. Bilal, yeah. So, and that's been a great change. Bilal Monday. Yeah, man. He's so good. Both the brother. He got a little brother. Oh, really? He's a stud.

[52:46] He's a stud. I believe it if he comes out of that family. Yeah. Bob Mondays is a beast. He's a stud. The little brother is a stud. He helped me for... [52:54] Marvin's fight, I think. And then Nacho helped me a little bit for this one, this last one. How did you choose going to Chicago? I've known Bilal since Rufus Sport. [53:03] And obviously we stayed in contact. You know, when we see each other, it's like we never... [53:08] You know, haven't seen each other. And he's always told me like, bro, just come down. Just come check it out. You don't have to stay or nothing like stay at my house, but you don't have to move here or nothing. Just come check it out. So I watched his his rise and what he does and his work ethic and his team. And I [53:23] After the fluffy loss, like, I just – I kind of sat back, had some conversations with people that are really close to me and explained, like, what was going on with me, like, mentally and where I felt. And, um – [53:35] Bilal was one of the people I talked to and he's like, [53:38] I know what the problem is, and everyone that I talked to, which wasn't a lot, they all said exactly the same thing. So I was like, B, can I come train with you? What was the problem? Complacency. [53:48] I know who I can train with and not go hard. I'm the coach of my own thing. I'm running my whole camp basically. Oh, you were running your whole camp? Basically. You go to Wagner's for jiu-jitsu? Yeah, I'd go to Wagner's for jiu-jitsu. I'd be at Kill Cliff, but I'd be in the corner doing my thing because we had the Russian coach over here teaching some crazy stuff that don't make no sense. What do you mean? They'd be teaching some stuff off the wall that would never work. Yeah. [54:11] really yeah but the kid like the kid the russian kids like they were in the classes like they got young young guys like

[54:18] Ansar, Nikita, like... [54:21] Vaisangor, he wasn't even there. Those guys, they were like... [54:24] come over here, let's do something else. Like, they have, like, real MMA knowledge because they fight and they've learned from, you know, all the guys from where they're from. But, uh... So who are these Russian coaches that are teaching a while? There was just one, man. Uh... [54:36] You don't have to say his name. Yeah, he's not there no more. But he was a legit coach? [54:42] He never fought. [54:43] Okay, did he fight in anything? Never. Kickboxing? Nope. Nothing? I don't know if he even competed in wrestling, to be honest with you, ever. I don't know. Okay, is he, like, does he spar with people? Nope. How old is he? [54:55] I would say in his 30s, I would say. What? Really? Yeah, I would guess. And he's a coach? [55:01] But he's coaching unorthodox stuff? Like what kind of stuff? Like stuff against the wall, but it was like, for instance, I don't remember what it was. It was against the wall. I was going with my friend AJ, Aaron Jeffries. [55:13] It was some takedown off the wall, right? AJ couldn't get it. I was like, bro, this... And I don't say it out loud because I don't want no problems. I'm going to just go with the flow and mind my business, but... [55:23] I've been doing it long enough to where it's like you realize this move is probably not going to work for my body type or my game, but I'll try it. And so anyway, he was doing it, and AJ's like, bro, I don't get it. I was like, yeah, because this shit ain't going to work, bro. He's like, what? I was like, it's not going to work. I'm telling you. So he calls. [55:38] The coach over, and he was like, how can you do – [55:42] The guy looks at me and he goes... [55:43] He's telling him, and then he looks at me and goes, stop it. [55:48] Me? He's like, yeah. I was like, bet.

[55:50] he tries to do it I literally grab his wrist grab his head [55:54] and throw him. Boom. Is he your size? He's bigger than me. Oh, wow. Throw him. And so it didn't work? No. He's like, let me try one more time. Let's go full speed. I said, shit, that was full speed. Do the exact same thing, but do it the other way now. Boom. Throw him again. AJ looks at me. [56:12] He says – the coach says something. I was like – then I get agitated, right? Then I'm like, man, that's because this shit ain't going to work. I told you all. You all don't listen to me. I just walked off. Oh, that's not good. You know? So I just walk off. And I was like, I ain't taking this damn class no more. So how did this guy become a coach there? Sticking around and translating. [56:28] Oh, no. You know? There's those weird guys like that. I'm not saying that this guy's like that, but there are some weird guys like that become parasitic. [56:37] You know, they're like friends with a guy who's a really good fighter and then they're always there and then they want to be a part of the team somehow. And then they start contributing or they start maybe running conditioning drills or something like, why is this guy running conditioning drills? That's exactly how it went. Oh, that's the word. Exactly how it went. Literally. There's weird parasitic relationships in any elite like thing, whether it's sports. I see it in comedy. There's some comedians that have weird parasitic friends that wind up, you know, becoming a producer on their thing. [57:07] Just like like a lamprey clinging to the bottom of a shark. [57:11] It got weird for a little while, especially at the end. It did, like, when I was still there. Um... [57:17] with that whole thing. Cause even some of the other coaches started to catch on because at Killcliffe,

[57:21] Sometimes we have a lot of guys fighting all over the place. So coaches would be gone and we'd try to figure that situation out. So he'd step in and try to help. [57:31] It just got weird. But again, I'm not the kind of person that really caused a conflict. I'd rather just – just for instance, if you're causing something, some type of energy with me, I'm going to just move over here. [57:42] and just stay out your way. That's smart. The world needs more people like you. Well, my younger self would have, I want a conflict. Yeah. [57:48] I'm gonna try I'm gonna show you right of course but now as you got wiser yeah and you realize like what's the also? You're an elite professional mixed martial arts fighter. You ain't got shit to prove to somebody. That's kind of how I feel now I see some of these younger kids. I feel so I see some of these younger kids now I'm just like I'm gonna just stay over here. It gets people hurt. It ruins your life and that's what it can be for me. I don't want that to happen because like I [58:13] I have kids. I have a wife. I have a good life. I live very nice. Like as far as like my lifestyle, like I'm here with you right now. You know, also it's fucking pointless. I've seen bar fights where, you know, there's young guys and they just like see an opportunity. They want to prove something. And I'm like, I just want to tell them like, hey, man, one day you're going to be 35. You're going to be looking back on this day. And maybe it's the day you got stabbed. [58:36] Maybe it's the day you got shot. Maybe it's the day you got knocked the fuck out, your head bounced off the concrete, and you'll never be the same person again. Yeah, exactly what you said. It's just not worth it. You know Kevin James, the Canadian? Yeah, he used to come to the gym. Oh, that's awesome. He trains a lot. Good friend of mine. I've been friends of mine for 30 years. When I first met him, he told me a story of when he was bouncing. When he was bouncing at a bar in Long Island, one of his friends there was a bouncer.

[59:06] fell down and hit his head and died. And he wound up doing time. He went to jail for manslaughter. [59:11] One of my best friends got stabbed in the face in New Orleans because he didn't even know. He was talking to this dude's chick, and he didn't know. Right. He didn't know. Like, she didn't say nothing. She came up to him. He was just at the bar. Oh, Jesus Christ. Dude came and stabbed him in the face, broke his jaw, stabbed him, and ran. He has a nice scar. Right. [59:29] He's older now, so it's kind of went away through his beard. But wired his jaw shut. He was messed up for a while in the face. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you've got something to say, sell, or share with the world, you need a legit online presence. [59:47] Me, I use Squarespace to power my website. It's easy to use. And with their AI-enhanced website builder and built-in tools for booking payments, email, all of it, you can actually run your business, not just build a site. Go to squarespace.com slash Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the code Rogan to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. [1:00:13] And someone trying to stab you in the face is easily trying to stab you in the neck. Exactly. Yeah, you just got lucky. So it's like... You just got lucky to hit that jaw and not your fucking carotid artery. Oh my God. I watched a video of these guys in London and they're yelling at each other and squaring off each other back and forth and back and forth. And then finally they get out of it and one guy just pulls out a fucking knife and slices this dude's neck. And this dude is just squirting out of his neck. And he tries to fight for a second. Then he just gets woozy and he's just squirting as he goes down.

[1:00:43] I don't know what happened. I'm assuming he died because I'm looking at the amount of blood loss. If someone didn't jump on that and compress it, and even if you did, the carotid artery is like such a significant amount of blood that's going through there, depending on, I guess, the damage. Dude, I think I had like – So stupid. I've always heard this story. [1:01:01] Obviously. [1:01:01] you know how stories are, but [1:01:03] I've heard from a couple of different people. I have like a great uncle somewhere along the line. He passed away before I was alive. He was in a bar. [1:01:09] I know right where the place is. Everything – the building is still there to this day. He was in the bar. He was sitting down having some drinks with a friend. Don't – I don't know the relationship between him and the guy. The guy walked up behind him, slit his throat. Oh, God. He missed the carotid arteries, both of them, by like not even a quarter of an inch, like not even an eighth of an inch. He missed both of them. So it was just here. Oh, shit. He chased the guy out, almost beat him to death, and then almost died because he couldn't breathe. Oh, God. [1:01:39] - Yes. [1:01:40] Almost. Almost died. So two people almost died. Bro, nightclubs are so bad. I've never been a club. I hate, like, a group of people, I hate it. I get very off-setting. There's too many people on Coke. There's too many people that are stupid. There's too many people that want to, like, bro, I fucking see red. And, you know, there's too many dummies. When I was a kid, when I was 21 years old, I was at a bar and I watched this guy hit a guy in the face with a Heineken bottle. [1:02:04] Out of nowhere, over nothing. I was standing by the bar... [1:02:09] And there's just two guys. They were as close as Jamie is to me. And they were talking to each other like loud voices, but nothing crazy, like no physical shit. And this guy just takes a Heineken bottle off the ball and smashes it on his face. And there was blood in there.

[1:02:24] This guy was just leaking all over his face. I was like, that guy's face is destroyed for the rest of his life. Over... [1:02:31] Literally nothing. [1:02:33] Literally nothing. It's crazy, man. It's just there's too many people out there that are fucking stupid, man. And you get sucked into their gravity. You know, you're like the guys that like – if they know who you are, they'll be like, oh, you can fight? I can shoot. I'm like, all right, so can I. Congratulations, man. Let's not fight each other or shoot each other. That's my question. Hi, my name is Brendan. That's my thing now. I'm like, bro, I don't want to fight or shoot. You just leave me alone and leave my family alone and we're good, bro. I don't want no problems with nobody. [1:03:03] haven't proven themselves. They don't have a thing in their life that gives them a challenge all the time where they're proving themselves. So every time they go out, they're trying to prove themselves. Every time they go out, they're trying to puff their chest out and be Billy Badass. And it's so dangerous. [1:03:18] And here's where you don't see that. Trained fighters. Dude, I used to bounce that a little, like something small. And I needed the money, obviously. And I will never forget, man. This little dude, he had to be like... [1:03:30] this tall, short and fat. He was... I don't know how tipsy he was. I don't know, right? But all the guys know that I was fighting. I was... [1:03:39] LFA at the time. And, um, [1:03:43] They always told me, hey, man, don't worry about hitting nobody. If someone swings at you, I got you. [1:03:48] Or just hit them and say, I did it. [1:03:51] I was like, I'm good, bro. I'm good. I just smiled. So it doesn't get you in trouble? Yeah. They were super cool, right? Who knows if that would have really been how it went. I don't know. You know? But anyway. If you really fucked somebody up and there was a lawsuit, I guarantee you they'd have dropped your name. Dude, there was a bartender there. He freaking – I watched it with my own two eyes in the front. This dude and him got into it. The guy slipped.

[1:04:09] Because he pushed him and he slipped. It was a little wet. Dude, soccer kicked him so hard in the face. So hard. I was like... [1:04:18] He got arrested for that. Oh, God. But that little kid, he swung at me. And I don't even know if he hit me or hit my hand. He hit something, right? And I'm laughing. I'm laughing. I'm like, I couldn't believe it. He had that cocaine courage, son. He must have. I'm laughing. I'm literally doing this because I was going to stick him with the right, but... [1:04:38] He was so little. Like, I was like... That's so crazy. No way. And how I saw the punch come, I was like... [1:04:44] Don't do it. There are some people out there that have no idea how to fight, and yet they still try to fight. They have no weapon. They don't have a good punch. They don't have a background in wrestling. They don't have a damn thing. And yet they'll still decide they want to fight someone and just hope. [1:04:59] In today's day and age, how can you hope that people don't know how to fight? [1:05:02] I think if you run into 10 guys, one of them can fight today. Right. It's probably the most in human history in terms other than like Spartan days, most in human history. And even back then, how good was their technique? Exactly. You know what I'm saying? It's crazy. They probably didn't even know about calf kicks. [1:05:22] It's like my dad grew up boxing, right? [1:05:25] My dad, he would always tell me, like, growing up, he was a little bitch. He was like, I used to get my ass kicked until he had... [1:05:31] He had to move in with his grandfather. His grandfather, World War II vet. [1:05:35] Shot twice. Grew up boxing. [1:05:39] probably the most rugged man that you'll ever meet I met him once before he passed away his voice was so gruff like he's a man's man you know like one of those doesn't say nothing really and uh

[1:05:51] So he raised my dad. [1:05:54] And he used to step outside. [1:05:56] Like kind of mess with him box like he put him in boxing, but he knocked my dad out one time But I was like, you know, oh man, come on. Let's test it stepped on his foot and I [1:06:03] Slept him But anyway so like when he was in high school though That's a fucked up thing to do to your kid [1:06:09] Dude, he said – my dad said he didn't care about nothing. My dad said he literally watched his smash his finger flat with a hammer. The nerves flew out. Like they were still attached. They flew out. Oh, my God. Hit his head throwing barrels of hay in the loft. [1:06:23] He smoked his head on a railroad spike that was in the wood, cracked his skull. He didn't know until two days later. They said if he would have waited a couple, like 12 more hours, he would have been dead because of all the swelling on his brain. He had to cut his skull off to let the fluid come out. Oh, God. Crazy old, just stubborn old man, you know? That's crazy to do to your grandson, though, sleeping like that. Dude, he said – That's so crazy. My dad said – he said we were messing around. He's like, all right, like quit messing with me. He always told him that. Leave me alone. He kept on, kept on. [1:06:53] on his foot and my dad said, quit stepping. He said, that's all he remembers. Old school trick. My dad said when he woke up, he had the worst migraine. And he was on the porch drinking a thing of, I think, tea. And he was like, hey... [1:07:05] Get your ass up and go clean the dog pen. [1:07:07] Get to work. [1:07:09] Those dudes who came up through World War II, that's a different kind of human being. Yeah, you know, so it's like – [1:07:16] Like, that's just kind of like how... [1:07:18] My dad was. So, like, when he got to high school, like... [1:07:21] He wasn't the kind to go look for trouble, but...

[1:07:23] He was the kind of person like... [1:07:25] My dad told me as well, like, you stick up for other people that can't stick up for themselves. Yeah. Yeah. [1:07:29] Or if someone fucks with you, like... [1:07:32] Do what you got to do. Just don't. [1:07:33] Like nowadays, he's like, don't put your hands – like don't throw a punch at them first unless they get an arm to reach. Then you throw a punch first. Don't ever let someone hit you. Well, kind of like you too. You could just choke somebody. Yeah, now, but it's like – You really have to hurt them. You could just put them to sleep. And that's more – I'm a good hugger. So it's like I prefer that. But my dad's like mean, man. Like he's different. Like he was in the military and he boxed when he was overseas for like 75 bucks because he'd send all his money home to us. So it's like – I don't know. Different kinds of human beings, man. [1:08:03] and that's what I feel like when I fight. I'm different. Honestly, I... [1:08:09] I was telling myself that in the Marvin fight in between rounds, like going into the third, because my dad and my brother were both there in attendance for the first time. Like my brother hadn't been in any of my fights since probably my second pro fight. [1:08:19] because of his injury. And, uh, so like my, I watched my buddy Costello fight, uh, for the PFL belt. And he said after the fight, like he said, word for word, he's like, I was, um, [1:08:29] I was raised by a warrior. He raised two warriors. I'm a fucking warrior. And he's like, that's what I told myself. And so that stuck in my head till the fight, till my fight. So in the third round, everyone was like, oh, he falls off in the third. And that was something like my corner was because that was my first time in Chicago. So Horacio looked at me in between rounds and he was like, hey – [1:08:50] Let's go. [1:08:51] Like, let's restart it. He said something else. And I was like, I'm good. Just get out of the way.

[1:08:57] Like, you know, it's kind of one of those moments where it's like... [1:09:00] You're living in the moment, but I don't know. Well, I think just having a coach is really important. It's really important, especially having an elite coach, having a coach that's really on top of it. I guess Seif Sayoud, Faraz Zahabi, Duke Rufus. [1:09:18] really on it, really watching you, really knows what you need, really knows when you need to back off. Because the fact that you did so well, and that you were coaching yourself is kind of crazy. [1:09:31] When I say – I had coaches. Well, you had coaches. Yeah, exactly. But I didn't have a main coach. Yes, sir. Exactly. That's the difference. So for people that don't know, okay, if you're listening to this and you're just interested in MMA, generally there's a striking coach. Usually they have some sort of a Muay Thai or kickboxing background. You generally have wrestling coaches. You generally have jiu-jitsu coaches. And if you're a really good gym, you got one guy who knows how to put it all together. Right. And those are the maestros. Da-da-da. Those are the guys who are, like, conducting the entire orchestra. [1:10:01] And they know you. And if a good guy knowing his fighter is like an artist, and I think you can only have a certain amount of people that you're working really closely with because it's a very involved and intensive job. Like Eric Nixick. That's a guy. He gets down into the nitty-gritty of every fucking thing you guys are doing. He's watching you. He knows what you need. He knows what you don't need. It's also you've got a guy who you can just push it off to him. He knows what to do. He's going to give you game plans in between rounds. Okay, this is working, but we need more of this.

[1:10:31] He does this all the time. The reason why he's getting away with it is because of that. Get it in your head. Go out there. When I hear guys and the guy's losing and they get no technical advice and they start getting, go fuck him up. You got to fuck him up. You got to put hands on him. And I'm like, oh, my God, tell him what to do. He knows how to fight. Get on top. Get on top. Tell him what to do. Stand up. And I get it. You only have a minute. I get it. And I get it. Everybody's panicking if things are going wrong. I get it. But, my God. It's been different. [1:11:01] a hobby type dude in your corner who just really understands what you need to do. So fucking important. It's been one of the [1:11:09] best changes that i have because i ain't gonna lie i'm not the easiest person to deal with like i like to be very in control of things that i can control and i know myself like i i've done a lot i've been around a lot so like i know like hey man like i'm feeling it today like my body's kind of done no no no no go go go 100 you know do you monitor all your shit do you monitor your [1:11:34] I don't usually have my whoop on because I used to have the aura, but it hurt like I couldn't train with it. So, right. But I know I just took it off because I was training jujitsu. Or is a little bit of a problem when you lift weights, too. Exactly. I pinch my finger so bad. Well, you ever seen sheathing injuries? You ever seen those? What is it where it rips the skin of your finger off? The first time I ever saw one, I never saw him in person, but the first time I ever saw one, it was somebody who did jujitsu.

[1:12:04] finger. It's called sheathing because it pulls all your skin off the bone like a sheath you would stick a knife in. Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, I didn't know that's what it was called. That's what it's called. It's like a sheathing. Here's some of these injuries. Bro, look at that. [1:12:17] dude oh the first time i ever seen it was someone a gi it got caught in the gi oh my god like you said took the skin off yeah he had the red ring and he had i think he made the grip on the on the sleeve and when the guy pulled it like took it like caught that like fat that little muscle or whatever right there ripped his fucking skin off the whole skin i've never seen that dude it was so nasty like you said i was like oh my god so now i am a hundred percent sure that i don't wear my [1:12:47] I go to camp. I don't wear a red ring. She knows. When I get to camp, I take it off. I put it in my truck. When camp is over and I get home from the fight, I put it back on. I don't have mine on now because I just came from the gym, but I used to have a silicone one. Well, not used to. I have a silicone one that I use all the time that I can work out with it. I can do anything with it. Oh, interesting. Yeah. What is that company? Ridge? Is that what it is? No. That's the wallet company. [1:13:10] Is that what it is? Shit, they're making all kinds of stuff. They've got luggage and everything. It's a good one. [1:13:16] It looks like an Oura ring, too, but it's made out of silicone. So even if you catch it on something, it's no big deal. But even that, I forget which coach it was. [1:13:26] I forget which coach. It's like an elite jujitsu coach. He goes, I refuse to let a guy even train with that. He goes, I've seen too many injuries. Dang. Too many injuries where your finger just gets mangled by having that fucking stupid thing on there. That's nasty. That's like… Groovering. Groove. That's it. Yeah. I feel like that with like… Those are legit. Knee injuries and like…

[1:13:43] dislocations oh dude you know what creeps me the most is broken shins [1:13:48] When I see that shin check, when the shin snaps, like, ah. If there's ever a fight that I think a guy should have pulled out that didn't, and if I was his friend, I would have told him, you cannot fight. It's Conor when he fought Dustin. The second fight with Dustin, excuse me, the third fight with Dustin when his shin snapped in half. You know, they knew that he had some sort of a hairline fracture on his shin. Really? Yeah. I never knew that. He already had MRIs and everything. They knew something was really wrong with it. Yeah, screw that. [1:14:18] to knee or anything like that, like it usually snaps. That's how compromised it was. If you watch that fight, there is one time where Dustin checks it. [1:14:27] And he checks the kick and he looked at him. He pointed at him like, I know that hurt you, bitch. Like he like got in his head. And that was also after Dustin had just KO'd him in the last fight. So this was the third fight. Yeah. And it was weird, man, because in the first fight, it was like, nice guy, Conor. [1:14:43] It was like, nice guy, Connor, even after the fight. Like, after the fight, he was being cool. He got KO'd. His leg got fucked up with those calf kicks. And after the fight, he was so respectful. I'm like, look, Connor turned a corner. Not the third one. Not the third one, bro. This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger scat pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin-turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas. No mercy. [1:15:13] 550 horsepower, 0 to 60 in just 3.9 seconds, and a top speed of 177 miles an hour. Woo! Unlike vehicles that make you choose between traction and attitude, the Dodge Charger Scat Pack comes with standard all-wheel drive and a selectable rear-wheel drive mode so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts.

[1:15:43] In both two-door and four-door models, the new Charger Scat Pack, it's loud, it's fast, it's powerful, and unapologetically Dodge. Learn more at Dodge.com. Dodge is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. This summer, soccer is here, and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. [1:16:13] with 30% off all orders from Aldi, Kroger, and Dollar General. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy, delivered straight to your door like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. Order in so you can stay locked in on the game. All the hosting, none of the hassle. Order now for 30% off your game day snacks and grocery order only on Uber Eats for a limited time. [1:16:43] for 30% off entire order. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Offer valid through July 5th. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. You're chugging my DMs. [1:16:59] Oh, bro. It's so funny, but it's like, I know where Dustin, he comes from like a same... [1:17:04] vibe that i come from and like same things probably bother him so when he said that you could see dust like even though he just whooped him he was like like you know he's gonna say why you're lying there with a broken leg for sure you know a guy could just keep it well though yeah you know who took it the best that i've seen personally tyrone spong

[1:17:21] When he snapped his in half, he's just sitting there. We talk about this, too. I'm like, bro, how did you sit there just like – [1:17:28] He's like, to be honest, I think he said, like, to be honest, I was a little in shock at first, and then I was like – [1:17:34] what am I going to do? It is what it is. Yeah, like what am I going to do? Like it sucks. That's wise. Yeah, he was a G. That was against Gokan Saki too. Yeah. That was a kickboxing fight. Yeah, I remember it to this day. It's very rare in a kickboxing fight. Isn't it interesting? It's way more common in an MMA fight. I've only seen it a couple of times in kickboxing. I've seen it. God, thank God. Thank because of Instagram. Luckily, I get to see every fucking horrific injury that's ever happened. God, I've seen. It seems like I never saw it until one. Who was the first time? [1:18:04] Was it Corey Hill? [1:18:06] I think it was Corey Hill was the first guy who broke his – and Corey was like a real tall, thin guy. I believe he fought at 145, and he was something crazy, like 6'3 at 145. Yep. He was real tall and skinny. [1:18:20] Who did he fight? [1:18:21] - You gotta once and get out. [1:18:23] Jamie will find out. He passed away, right? Yes, he did, unfortunately. He fought in Louisiana a good big. [1:18:28] Because I remember when he passed away, they were doing some stuff for him there. So that was also the referee didn't notice it. Dale... [1:18:37] It just says Dale H. [1:18:41] Mm-hmm. [1:18:42] oh bro that gets me so during the fight the referee didn't notice it so they kept fighting and i put my headsets down and i got up and i i was screaming stop the fight stop the fight the referee didn't notice it he didn't notice that the guy's leg broke so they were still scrapping on the ground i i hope that was in because i did not notice that his leg is literally

[1:19:12] angle, you know, you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Well, looking at where the referee's standing, there's actually kind of no excuse. [1:19:20] There it is. Let's see it falls back. It's lit. [1:19:26] Stop the fight! [1:19:31] The fight is all over. Corey Hill. Dang. [1:19:35] Dale Hart. You saw it instantly on your monitor. I saw it instantly in the cage. Oh, dang. I wasn't watching the monitor. I don't even think we had monitors back then. I was just about to ask that question. I don't think we had monitors back then. We didn't have monitors for a while. The monitors are my idea. [1:19:50] Really? I was like, we have to have monitors. I want to see monitors. I want to see replays. I want to see shit. Yeah. It was early, early in the UFC. I was like, we need monitors. And also the judges should get fucking monitors too. Yeah, now it's nice. I'll sit behind you sometime and see it. Actually, now that I'm thinking that, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we did have monitors. Maybe I was asking for other things. [1:20:07] Maybe I was asking for monitors for the judges. Like, when did they start having monitors in the UFC? I don't know. [1:20:12] But I always try to watch the actual fight. I want to see the actual fight. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I like – you can get a better view if the cage is there. But, I mean, fuck, man. You're five feet away from the best fights on earth. You want to see it, see it. I don't want to be watching TV. That's crazy. Yeah, you got the best seat in the house. Oh, it's the craziest seat ever. So when did they start doing it? 2011. [1:20:35] Is that for judges? Yeah. [1:20:37] That was definitely my idea. Well, there was other people that had that same idea, but I'm like, you need to do this. Because there were some of them that were so bad, some calls that were so bad. It's like there's no way these guys are seeing everything. If there's a pillar here and a guy lands an elbow and you're judging and you don't see it, what do you do? What do you say? That might have been the most pivotal moment in the fight. What are you doing? You have to see it. The judging thing is crazy, man. Tell me about it. There's judges that don't even train. They've never trained MMA.

[1:21:07] They don't have any jujitsu skill. They don't know what's going on. In the middle of a fight once, this lady leaned over to my friend who also worked for one of the commissions and said, what is he doing? [1:21:19] No way. [1:21:21] It was an Americana. It was a normal move. It was like, what is he doing? [1:21:27] Thank you. [1:21:29] That's crazy. It was either American or Kimura. I'm not sure if I remember. I'm not sure. He's trying to bite him. [1:21:35] What? I don't know. But imagine this is a person that's in charge. So the really horrible thing about it, a bad decision, it's not just that you get a loss on your record, but you get half your paycheck, which I think is really fucked up. I think that needs to stop. I think you should have a designated amount that you're fighting for. And if you want to have a stoppage bonus, or you want to, you know, give someone some some sort of a bonus for an excellent performance. That's great. That incentivizes them to try harder to stop somebody. But a [1:22:05] A bad decision that can cost you half your purse is crazy. It's crazy. You know, I had a... [1:22:13] I'm getting older, you know, so I try to be have a little bit more wisdom. So after like I lost a fluffy I [1:22:20] I was like, I went back and watched the fight like six times and I'm like... [1:22:24] I really don't see how I lost on a decision. I can see your point if you use this frame of mind, but based on the unified rules at the time... [1:22:35] How? So I did. I reached out to like a lot of people that I knew that are like in the high up in commissions and like I had really deep talks with them about it, like explain my perspective, listen to theirs, the rules. And literally it came down to.

[1:22:49] It's your interpretation. [1:22:51] It's your interpretation of the rules. And it was like – it came down to is his – [1:22:55] Effective grappling. [1:22:57] Even if they're holding, they're still, you know, whatever – [1:23:01] Does it outweigh me almost knocking you out? [1:23:04] and me putting a cut all the way to your skull on your face. [1:23:08] and you holding me. [1:23:09] Which one outweighs what? That's how I explained it to him. And they were like, oh, but he just had more time. I said – [1:23:16] and look don't get me wrong [1:23:17] I love Fluffy. I think he's a great human being. I really do. I've known him. We fought twice already. And he's beat me both times. [1:23:25] Both decisions, you know, and... [1:23:28] But [1:23:28] I don't think I lost the last one. I'll still die on that hill. Well, it was a very good fight. It was a very close fight. I see what you're saying, though. And it was one of the things that we brought up during this past fight with Merab and Pyotr Jan. And I'm like, if you're looking at it in terms of just damage, Pyotr Jan is clearly doing more damage. Right. He's hitting Merab with shots that rock him. He kicks him in the body. He's got him screaming. There was never a moment where Merab did that to Pyotr. Even when he hit him with good shots, Pyotr was firing back. Right. [1:23:58] Damage is huge. It's what the sport is really about. The sport is really about either damage or coming really close to putting someone out, like submitting them. [1:24:07] That's what the sport's about. And when it's just holding, when a guy holds and doesn't do anything with it, it's like that. It's look, it's an effective strategy. And if you're fighting a guy who could fuck you up standing and that's all you could do to survive, it's not.

[1:24:21] I understand. Like, I have no problem with boring fights. I really don't. And I know the fans are like, fucking separate them. You know? Fucking separate them. I have no problem with boring fights because I think if you can let a guy just hold on to you, that is a part of the game. Yeah. If a guy takes you down and holds you down, I think you should be there. A round is only five minutes. I don't believe in stand-ups. And I know that sounds crazy, but even if it's boring as shit, and sometimes I'm happy when they stand people up. I really am. [1:24:51] But if it was my rules, if I could make the rules, I'd never stand a person up. Unless there's a violation of the rules, never stand a person up. Because it's part of the sport. If it's boring, it's boring. You know, we talked about it after the fight. After the fight, like... [1:25:05] I went in the back and I was frustrated at myself really to be honest. I was super frustrated at myself. Well, first I was like, fuck, they just let him fucking hold the whole time. Like in the third, I literally almost knocked him out. Like I'm talking shit, right? And Robbie looks at me, Robbie Lawler, and he goes, [1:25:23] Should have just got up then. I went... [1:25:25] You're right. Yeah. You're right. You're right. That's some Robbie Lawler wisdom right there. And from there, I was like – [1:25:33] All right. Yeah. But then I found out after like one of Fluffy's coaches is – [1:25:38] He used to be in the commission, so he knows the – they explained his pedigree or whatever, and he's very, very, very knowledgeable about what the rules are and all these things. So he strategizes, I guess, certain things around that.

[1:25:53] So he strategizes certain things around the rules. Yeah, that's what I heard. That's what they told me. I've met a lot of guys do that. He canceled – he was in the commission, part of it, I guess, worked for them, and he pulled out of working there because he wanted to be for Fluffy more, which is admirable. [1:26:08] But he didn't want to have a conflict of interest. Conflict, yeah. So I thought that was pretty cool. But I will... [1:26:14] say like what fluffy did really good that I was prepared for like wrestling like crazy, but I wrestled with guys that are like folk style wrestlers. What he does very well is he don't shoot normal shots. [1:26:28] He doesn't shoot like a double or a single. He shoots like it looks like it's going to be a double. [1:26:34] But... [1:26:35] He's only at your hips. He's just trying to get your hips. Then he's circling right away if he can or putting you to the cage and working his sequences from there. But he has very awkward shots. They're so weird. Like I could see them. [1:26:47] And I was like, oh, I'm about to stuff it. But I'm the kind of guy like, you got to touch me and then I'm going to go. I'm not just going to react. That way you can set it up for something else. Right. But as soon as he touches me, like in the second, he was, I didn't know how, but I watched it back. [1:27:02] I went to like catch a whizzer. And next thing you know, my feet came out from under me because we were both circling so hard. I was trying to get the whizzer and he was trying to go to my back. And my feet came out from under me. I just landed like on my shoulder. And I'm like. [1:27:14] in the fight i'm like what the fuck just happened there's no way this is where my head's at i'm like no fucking way he just did this i'm like what the fuck just happened and my corner's yelling me his corner's yelling and i'm still in my head like what the fuck like what just dude it took me like probably a minute and a half to to like transfer into something else and then i was like uh he's not doing nothing so i'll just get him next round which terrible frame of mindset we've worked on and then the third uh but yeah man i was like still like after the fight i was like yo i'm

[1:27:43] I thought, well, I was like, [1:27:44] how do you get me down there? Like he went for a guillotine. I said, I ain't going for no goddamn guillotine until the third. And then I swept him with it and stood back up. I was like, I didn't do that, I swear. But yeah, man. But like I said, he had a savage. He's a savage against the Lidze. [1:28:00] And he also has a crazy gas tank, man. He melts, guys. Yeah, man. That guy melts, guys. The Delizze thing, when he grabbed his neck and just like a bouncer at a nightclub just dragged him back to finish him, that was crazy. Yeah, man. [1:28:14] That's one thing I wish I would have put more output. [1:28:17] Like, because I wasn't – everyone was like, you're tired. I was like, bro, I was having a full conversation like this in between rounds. Right after the – I wasn't tired. I was just – [1:28:24] complacent like i was like oh like i'm already gonna because i beat malcoon like that because all he did was hold literally just held and i'm hitting him bang bang bang how am i supposed to improve my position you're literally just holding you're not even moving at all you're not lifting your weight you're not doing nothing right so i won that fight because i'm not doing nothing right [1:28:40] I did more damage and I had fight ending intentions. I felt I had that... [1:28:44] with fluffy so in the third i was like i'm elbowing him and he's gushing blood and i'm looking at the ref like yo he's just holding i try to get up he's just he just picks my ankle and [1:28:53] I go back down. I elbow him some more, try to get back up. He got on top for like a minute, but he didn't do nothing really. Anyway, that's where my frame of mindset was at. And it was just terrible, you know, looking back, but, um, [1:29:04] I would love a third, you know? Well, it'll probably happen. It'll probably happen somewhere down the line because it'll be a great fight. Yeah, that's where – well, that's where kind of the holdup is I guess right now of like – obviously you know how politics work in this game, but it's like –

[1:29:16] The top five is the champion, Dracus... [1:29:19] Champion, Drakus, Imovolve, [1:29:25] uh sean strickland fluffy me and it's like all right sean they just announced sean and fluffy and he evolved yep that's cool and then uh he evolved is waiting they've all they both said they're they're gonna wait for that one so it's just me and drickus and then right behind me is izzy who knows when is he's gonna fight or if he's gonna fight or right so it's like we're eating on drickus and drickus always has a lot to say when i'm losing but when i'm winning he don't really have enough to say and then like i just saw an interview like the other day and it was like uh [1:29:55] Yeah, I'd love to... [1:29:56] to beat his head in or something. About you? Yeah, about me. And I'm like, well, you have the opportunity to do so, and it only makes sense unless you want to wait forever. [1:30:06] I wonder what he does after that Hamzat fight because when a guy dominates you like that – [1:30:13] where it's so clear that, [1:30:16] It's just like one of those gaps that it looks like, oh, you're never going to bridge that gap. [1:30:20] That grappling gap is never going to – that – [1:30:23] I don't know if you agree, but that should never happen at that level. Well, it never does happen at that level. That's the reality. Except Islam and Jack Della Maddalena. That's another similar situation. Yeah. Very similar situation. But I think there's guys that you get in there with, and if you're used to a B-caliber guy, or a high-level guy, but there's only a few real A's.

[1:30:50] And like Hamzat is a real A. Yeah. He's good at. He's a savage. I talked to DC about him and DC said, dude, when that guy grabbed me and he goes, we were wearing street clothes and everything like that. He goes, I realized like, oh, I'm going to have to wrestle, wrestle to keep this guy off me. [1:31:04] He was like, he's fucking strong, man. And it's also because, first of all, how the fuck did that guy make 170? I don't know, but I don't understand how he talks about going up to 205. Because like you said, you got guys like Pereira. And don't get me wrong, I know they're stylistically different, but come on, man. I think he could do it. I think he could do it. I think he could do it if he takes the time and puts weight on. Yeah, if he puts weight on, I think he has a high chance. Because he's tall. And it's also, the thing is, it's like these gaps in wrestling. [1:31:34] And a guy's a really good grappler. And then you're taking on a guy like Drikus. He's really a striker. Right. He's a good grappler. He's a good jiu-jitsu guy. But there's levels. Right. And the kind of guy like Hamza, like, man, you got to be a fucking Olympic caliber wrestler to scrap with that guy. Yeah. And it's like I tell people, like. [1:31:51] I'm not going to go out there and straight... [1:31:53] beat Chemaev in pure wrestling. It's not going to happen. I'm not stupid. [1:31:57] I'm not stupid, but it's MMA. Could I take him down? I mean, yeah, I could. But there's other ways to approach the fight that I think I have the upper hand. You see how other people have approached him and done well with him. But it's like – You also have very good submissions too. You have a real solid jiu-jitsu game and you can strike. [1:32:17] You know, you've got a very complete package. And I think, you know, the thing about his grappling is that, like, you have that hole. If you have that hole, he's going to find that hole and he's going to smother you. For sure. And you're Fuxville. That's what freaks – that's what, like –

[1:32:31] makes no sense to me with the Dracus fight, right? Like, you're the champion of the world. [1:32:37] He took you down. No problem, man. I totally understand. I get taken down a lot, you know? But, um... [1:32:45] I mean, I know our styles are different, but you didn't try to hip bump. You didn't try to hip escape. You didn't try to scoop the leg and lift and elevate. You didn't try to... [1:32:53] "Do nothing?" [1:32:54] He didn't literally – he didn't try to do nothing. He literally waited for him to establish his position. He'd roll side to side, maybe one hip bump around. When he did, Chemaev did great, knee sliced or just stepped over, passed, and went crucifix. Do you – how many times did he put him in the crucifix, by the way? That was crazy. It was crazy. I only had to be like once around because he wasn't getting out. I mean how many times did he put him in the crucifix? In a world championship fight, has there ever been a fight where a champion – [1:33:22] has been put in a crucifix that many times. Insane. It was over and over and over again. We were like, how is he doing this again? This is so crazy. And that kind of blew my mind. So that's what it's like. I just think Shamayo's gap is just so good. And I think also with a guy like Drikus, and you would be the guy to speak to this, when you're down and you realize, okay, it's the first round. He's taking me down. He's on top of me. Let me just conserve my energy. This is a five-round world championship fight. I'm going to knock this motherfucker out. He's going to get tired doing this. He always gets tired. He's going to knock this motherfucker out. [1:33:52] But you know the difference with Hamza in this fight is he trained with Sam Calavita. Do you know that guy? Uh-uh. Okay. I just already hired someone good. Yeah. Calavita is a real elite strength and conditioning coach and legendary guy. And he runs this – he just calls it the garage. Okay? It's in Orange County, California. And it's just a fucking garage and not even a big one. Just a small two-car garage with no cars in it. And it's all just machines and equipment.

[1:34:22] down there TJ Dillashaw when he was in his prime he was training down there the reason why TJ's conditioning was that such a fucking high level when he was in his prime [1:34:30] was he was training with that guy. [1:34:32] He has everybody that I know that's trained with him is like, bro, this guy puts you through fucking hell. [1:34:40] This is this TJ when he's training there. And again, this is like if you sit there, Sam, if you see it like and when you listen to the guy talk, just extremely fucking knowledgeable. But he gets you to the point. It's called the train. [1:35:02] Ing Lab, training, but training is T-R-E-I-G-N, like train MMA. Yeah, I know that name, the training lab, because I was like, man, what a weird way. That's it. So you see Aaron Pico's there with him. There's Hamzat. So, I mean, he's got so many elite guys that are training inside of that gym. [1:35:19] There's one enchilada. I wonder how they work. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. [1:35:49] and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join

[1:36:19] your first year. That's lifelock.com slash J-R-E for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Tecovas. All right, guys, if you want boots that are made right, you got to check out Tecovas. Their Western boots are sturdy and clearly built to last, but really sharp and premium too. You don't need to break them in either. They're comfortable straight out of the box and great [1:36:49] Whatever. And they're versatile, too. You can wear them with jeans, dress them up or down, whatever you need. Tacovus has all the classic leathers like cowhide and goat, but they've got all the exotics, too, for when you want to level up your look. [1:37:05] If you've been thinking about your next pair of boots or, hey, even your first pair, go check out Tecovas in-store or online at tecovas.com. That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at tecovas.com slash Rogan when you sign up for email and texts. [1:37:28] coaches and stuff dealing with it, but like how they operate. Well, I think the issue with Hamza was overtraining. [1:37:35] And so one of the things about Hamzat is he's apparently you can't kick him out of the fucking gym. He won't stop training. And you got to literally like stop him from training. He's a maniac. And when he got COVID, that's what really fucked him up. So he got COVID and you would think, oh, healthy guy like that who gets COVID, that ain't going to be shit for him. This silly motherfucker was training like an animal two-hour sessions with COVID.

[1:38:05] Thank you. [1:38:05] So instead of like saying, hey, this cold is not getting better, it's like, don't be pussy. I kill everyone. He shows up again, training again, two and a half hours, sick as a fucking dog, coughing. And then he broke his immune system down to a point where they had to fucking hospitalize him. Yeah, I remember hearing that. Just from training while he had COVID. That's all it was. He just refused to stop training. And look, I don't care what it is, the flu, whatever you have. You're trying to train two and a half hour days when you have a serious lung infection. [1:38:35] fucking die. There's DC. And DC told me he did one session with him. This is recent. He's on the bike. What's that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He uses elastic bands along with a fucking rogue echo bike. Yeah, so those rogue echo bikes, they suck enough to have resistance bands while you're doing it, too. [1:38:53] That's crazy. Yeah. No, Sam's an animal. And again, super knowledgeable. Like knows like what your recovery should be, where your resting heart rate should be. And also super knowledgeable in terms of like supplements, diet and all that stuff. He comes from the endurance cycling world, which is like so cycling you would imagine like Tour de France style cycling. This is probably the most endurance dependent sport on planet Earth because it goes for so long. [1:39:23] You have to really understand how to peak in order to compete at a real insane endurance event like that. So he's got this knowledge from that sport that he's transferred over to MMA. But everybody I know that's trained with him has said, man, it just changed everything. It changed my whole game because now all of a sudden you've got an incredible gas tank. Yeah, he's doing good. Shemai, like I said, he looked good. I think that was a factor, though, in that fight because there was no fade in that fight. Whereas you saw the Usman fight. It was a fade in the third round. Usman won that fucking third round.

[1:39:53] And after that third round, he was like, fuck, I wish this was a five-round fight. Yeah, but it's like, also like... [1:39:59] Usman made him have output. Yes. He didn't really have to. He had one explosion to take him down. Mm-hmm. [1:40:05] But Usman can fucking wrestle. That's the difference. He was in there with a guy who's real strong, even though he's a weight class below him. Usman had been competing at 170, and Hamzat had already committed to 85. He's a bigger guy. But Usman can really wrestle, and that's the difference. It's not like a guy that doesn't know what to do, and you take him down, you ragdoll him. Usman's like, okay, you got me down, but this is a long-ass fight. [1:40:28] And I'm going to get back up, and we're going to figure this out. [1:40:31] And in the third round, he was figuring it out, and he started tuning them up. He was landing good shots. [1:40:36] I have a friend that trained with Tremayev. He goes and helps. He's told me. His wrestling is really good. I was like, how good? He was like... [1:40:45] is good. I was like, he whooped you? He was like, no. If he whooped me, why would they... [1:40:50] bring me in if he whoops me. I was like, touche. Good one. But, you know, he is good. But you still got to watch that. You got to watch to see what does he consider whoop. Yeah. Let me watch. Show me the video. Let me see it. Yeah. Let me see what they got. Let me go in the room. I want to see you in the room. But I like his demeanor too. Like, the confrontation he had with, like, Ian Gary, like, [1:41:12] He's similar to me. I don't understand that because I had heard there's another angle that shows that Ian slapped him on the back pretty hard. Yeah. Oh, he did. Yeah, but Ian's that guy. He's trying to get a rise out of you. That way when you do get a rise, he's like a big brother, nitpicking. He's that guy. He wants you to get a rise out of you so then he can be like, what are you doing? I didn't mean that. He's like, that's why I don't like Ian at all.

[1:41:42] same gym for a while. Yeah. But like... [1:41:46] I don't know. Like, I know, like, other things and, like, things that happen. He's just that guy. Like, he's talked shit to me through another person. Like, we're out of – me and my boy are out of a fight, and he's talking shit to me through his phone. Bro, shut up. Take your – stop letting your wife tell you what to do, bro. Shut up, you know? But, like, yeah, he walks over there and he says something. Dude, he hits him hard on the back. And Shemai just looks at him. [1:42:10] And... [1:42:10] And then he did what he did back or whatever and shoved him, whatever the case, however you saw the confrontation from there. But yeah, he did. He hit him and he told him. He was like, you hit me, I'm going to fuck you up. Like if you hit me like that again, he tried to like big brother him. Because the clip that everybody saw was after he slapped him on the back. It looked like Kachimayev just got really aggressive with him for no reason. There you go. This is the other angle. [1:42:35] Like keeps hitting him. [1:42:36] Then shakes him as he walks away. Yeah. [1:42:39] And then he's talking a little shit. Yeah. Oh, we're fine. He's not going to do. So it's a little weirdly aggressive. It ain't that passive aggressive. It's a little weird. He taps him. [1:42:49] It was like a little like grab his clothes and shove him a little bit. Yeah. It wasn't like a guy that's, hey, brother. All right. Exactly. And that's what he said. He's like, good luck to you. Yeah. I have to give it to him. Like some things Shemaya says are like he fought my boy G and he talked shit to him in the hallway. I didn't really like that. But, hey, y'all two are going to fight. Y'all are grown men. Do what y'all want. Some things he might say or do, I don't like or agree with. But, hey, as long as it's not to me, we good. But that, like, and other things he does, I fully agree with. I stand behind. As a man, I stand behind him.

[1:43:19] about Shemayev, like after he fought Gilbert, Gilbert and him went to war. And then he was like, you're my brother now, you know, you know what I mean? He was like, he was really cool with them. Yeah. You know, there's a young kid, Ansar. [1:43:30] that trains at Kill Cliff, and he is so much... [1:43:33] Like demeanor wise from what I see of Tremayev. He's so much like that. Dude, I'm telling you this kid's like 18 years old and he is a stud. He's 18. He's 18. [1:43:44] He fought for me on my promotion. I think his debut. Dude, he goes and gets in the guy's face. The guy's coming down at weight class. He's going up at weight class. [1:43:54] Dude, he don't care. Matter of fact, he's in that streamer's video, Neon or whatever. They post about it. He's the one... [1:44:01] Like throwing RDR around him. Really? Yeah. Yeah. [1:44:05] 18-year-old kid? Dude, he gives everybody problems. Gilbert. Wow. Was throwing RDR around. Isn't it wild when there's some weird young phenom that is just so much better than they're supposed to be when they're young? Dude. It's real odd when you're around those guys. There's three or four of them that... Dude, I... [1:44:25] I miss them a lot when I left Florida. One, they are such... [1:44:32] loyal humans like you barely find that nowadays as you know like you don't you don't find too many loyal guys and when they say like my brother they don't care if you're white black indian uh what your ethnicity is what your religion they don't care [1:44:46] They care about you. And, dude, when I got into it with Marvin at the casino, Ansar wasn't even old enough to get in. So he was like, brother, if I would have been there.

[1:44:55] I hate him. No problem. But there's like Nikita, Umranjan, which is Ansar's best friend. There's like Islam. There's a couple of them. [1:45:05] That's a lie of there's like, [1:45:07] Three to five. And I'm telling you, these guys, especially like Umran John, there he is. [1:45:15] Whoa, that's a hell of a shot. Oh, my goodness. Dude, he is so good. Oh, my goodness. Look how smooth he took that dude's back. Wow. He just fought a couple weeks ago. He knocked some dude out in the first round. That was so smooth, man. Oh, my goodness. Oh, he is on that back so quick. [1:45:30] Ants are so good. [1:45:33] You know, there's one thing that these guys have in common, is they're all from a hard part of the world. A fucking rough part of the world. Yeah. [1:45:43] Him and his best friend, Umranjan, they left home at like, I think he was 17, 18 years old. They just left home. We asked him like, hey, bro, why'd you leave home? How'd you leave home? Like, how'd you get here? Yeah. [1:45:54] They both said the same thing. Look, he's out. He's out. Referee. He's a savage. [1:45:59] He trains 100%. He don't know anything other than 100% every day. Multiple times. But we asked him, like, bro, how'd you leave home? How old is he now? I think he's 18, 19 max. Wow. Dude, he's a savage. He looks good. He's very good. He looks good, man. There's another one for you. If you're that good at 18, my goodness. He's going to be a stud. What's he going to be like when he's 30? [1:46:17] Dude, I tell them all the time, like, man, if you just learn how to just take a breath and just be a little bit patient in certain positions... [1:46:24] Well, that'll come. Exactly. But, man, he's fighting...

[1:46:28] good guys already. They all want to fight him. Uman John was fighting like one or two weight classes up, and he had a draw with a guy, and he thought it was like [1:46:36] You would think he lost the love of his life. [1:46:39] He had a draw because he was two weight classes up. And I'm like, bro, why don't you fight at your weight class? Brother, I just smash. I want to fight everyone. Everyone. And they can't get fights. They can barely ever get fights. It's hard for phenoms to get fights in the amateurs and in the lower organizations. A lot of people don't realize that. It's really hard. Yeah. [1:46:59] They come to me to match him, and you've got to pay the other guy more to fight because they already know what it is. Yeah. It was hard. It was very hard. And so what weight is he at now? I think he's at 45. Damn. 45. [1:47:12] That's his last one right there. [1:47:14] I think, no, no, that's not... Bro, look at the dude's hair. He's fighting. [1:47:20] That's what he does to everyone. Oh, my goodness. That is a crazy takedown. He's so exciting. I can't believe dudes are still holding on to guillotines when people get into side control. How many times did they watch Ovin St. Prue fight? [1:47:31] You know, it's crazy how many people still do that. They still keep that guillotine while a guy's in side control. Yeah, that is a death sentence. Like and some people don't cash in on it. But if you cinch those hands together, he can't get that ham out. That's it. Yeah. Turn on your side. That's it. It's it's almost like giving up your neck. Exactly. If someone like gave up their back, everybody like, what are you doing? That's like what you're doing. If you're holding on to a guillotine and a guy's in side control, it literally is like giving up your back and exposing your neck.

[1:48:01] It is. But I see these kids like this and I'm just like... [1:48:04] I used to be that kid but these guys are even better. You know what I mean? Like it's scary how evolution is. But like I said, man, I asked these kids, I was like, man, why'd you leave home? How'd you leave home? How'd you get here? Him and his best friend left together. Their story, both same thing, different times. Like brother, we just left one day. [1:48:22] Our parents... [1:48:23] We told our parents we were going to the store. [1:48:25] Never came back. [1:48:26] What? [1:48:27] And just moved to America? Yeah. They somehow got here and they've been here and, dude, they work during the day. They move stuff. They work for a moving company and then they train. So they train in the morning. They go – they train, train. Then they go work all night. [1:48:43] all through the night, moving stuff, whatever they have to do, whatever their work is. But most of the time I see them moving stuff. [1:48:48] and then they come back, train the next day. And they do this every single day, working their ass off, man. It's super impressive and it's super motivating too, but it just lets you know like – [1:48:59] Like for me, I used to be that young cat. Like everyone was 24, 25. I'm 17, 18. Yeah. And I'm doing what I'm doing. And now I see these kids and I'm like, damn. So that's what it was like when the older guys are looking at me. But these guys are better. Some people can forget when they get like complacent in their career and they become like a journeyman. And they forget what it's like to be young and hungry. And then they'll train with someone and that will either make them retire or... [1:49:22] or it'll reinvigorate them. [1:49:24] It's awesome. Because if you're around people that are that driven, it becomes contagious. It really does, especially if you know that a guy is working all day and training that hard. You've got no excuses. Right. And it's also like when you're around people like that, there's an energy. It catches you. For sure. It moves you in its wake. It does. You're right, 100%. Because I get in my modes where I don't want to do nothing. I'm just like, man, screw this. I've done this long enough. Whatever. But then I go back and say today, for instance, I went and trained with Nicky Rod.

[1:49:54] they whooped my ass i ain't gonna lie to you they whooped my ass and i told them after i was like it should be illegal that y'all just whooped me that bad and uh they're like yeah but you ain't done nothing and you know you don't do pure jiu-jitsu anymore like we're the best in the world like some of the best in the world at pure jiu-jitsu it's true i was like yeah but still i shouldn't be getting walk like that and uh but it just makes me hungry to almost everybody [1:50:18] I love it, man. He's so big. He's such a freak. Dude, I told him today. I was like, how are you this big and move like this? This is illegal. Gordon told me there was a position once they were doing where they were working from the back. [1:50:31] And Gordon had his back and Nikki flipped over the top of him and wound up behind Gordon. And Gordon turns to John Donaher and goes, what the fuck am I supposed to do with that? [1:50:41] Like, what do I do if that happens? It's like, well, Donaher was like, well, nobody could do that other than Nicky. Dude. That's how crazy that is. He's so sick. You know how nuts that is? Do a backflip from your knees? I couldn't. And go over the top of someone who's got your back? I can't even visualize it. Separate the hands. Somehow or another, he separated the hands and flipped over him. [1:51:00] And Gordon was like, okay. Because Gordon would be the first to tell you, even though he's the best in the world and the best ever at Nogi Jiu-Jitsu, [1:51:06] He's not an explosive guy. Yeah. He's like, I'm not a good athlete. He's intelligent though. Super, super intelligent. Super smart. Yeah, he's super intelligent. Super smart. I've listened to some of his instructionals before. And I know he did one at Rufusport a long time ago. And the guys told me after because I was obviously at home. And they were like, bro, he was in a wheelchair because I guess he had a surgery at the time and he was in a chair. And his lady was teaching.

[1:51:31] Like she was teaching for him and he was walking through every single position. They, they all, everyone said that was the best seminar they ever been to. He didn't, he didn't get down there and teach one move. That's incredible. That's incredible. I was like, that's impressive. Well, you can, if you could do a seminar from a wheelchair, Jesus Christ, impressive. You know, Wagner says the same thing. He's like, bro, he's, [1:51:52] The best guy I've ever... [1:51:54] trained with learn from anything he's he's amazing so i've heard it from a lot i've heard a lot of other guy though that's 365 days a year of training period there's no days off fuck your christmas fuck your birthday there's no days off which is so crazy yeah think of but the way they put it and the way donna put it is like if you are training 200 days a year that is a lot but you will not be able to beat a guy who's training 365 days a year because he has 165 more training sessions a year [1:52:24] course of two years now he has you know a lot 300 plus then 400 it keeps going and going so over the course of five years like he's trained so much more than you it's true and it's not just training it's like when they're not physically training they're going over tape and they're [1:52:39] All day. Right. Which is like... [1:52:42] It's hard to do that and to keep your mind focused on that. They're writing things down. They're going over positions. It's not just all hard physical work. It's intelligence. It's a lot of breaking things down, a lot of the finer points of technique and positioning. [1:52:58] It's funny you say that because it's like for me, like when we were talking earlier about how like time off, it reinvigorates your mind. It's like that's what it does for me.

[1:53:07] I probably do... [1:53:10] A hundred reps in a day of like things that I've screwed up on like throwing a jab wrong or leaving my hand down or like in my head my mental reps. And then somehow when I do go train again, it's just so weird. Like my body just automatically does it. Like say I throw the jab and I just bring it back to my chest. I don't want it there. I want it on my chin. I do so many mental reps of this. [1:53:31] for like a week or two weeks or however long I'm out, by the time I spar again, I'm not doing it no more. Like I do so many mental reps, focus on such little details. But then outside of that, I really take my time. I try to take my time away from fighting. Like when I'm not, [1:53:45] training for the most part, like, especially like the month after the fight, I don't want to hear about fighting. I don't want to talk about fighting. That's why I stay away from like most people that don't know me. [1:53:54] I don't want to talk because anytime they see me, oh, what do you think about this fight? What's next? I don't know, man. You just want to let your motivation return. I just want to be with my family. I want to be a normal person because one day fighting is not going to be there for me. It's always been there for me since I was 13 when I had anxiety about something, stress, heartbreak, whatever it is. It's always been there for me, and that's when I always grew. [1:54:17] So [1:54:17] But it's not... [1:54:18] The end is a lot closer. [1:54:20] than the beginning. Right. You know, that's where I'm at in my life. And I know that. So I'm trying to make the most of it and try. But you think about like high end, you got 10 years, if that's really possible. Maybe. It's not usually. And usually the last few are rough because the last few years, like Anderson after broke his leg.

[1:54:38] Right. Right. So I say there's like two Andersons. There's Anderson pre-Wideman and post-Wideman. For sure. There's the knockout where Wideman caught him at the left hook, and then there's the leg break in the rematch. And then from then, he's never been Anderson again. Correct. [1:54:50] And I think the injury has a lot to do with it, but it's also father time. I don't think we got Anderson in the UFC until he was 34. [1:54:57] It was a while because he was already big on the other scenes. Huge, bro. That was one of them fights where people didn't really know Anderson that well. And he was fighting Chris Lieben. And the odds were Anderson was the favorite but not by enough. And I was telling my friend, like, bet the house on the Brazilian. I go, bet the house. Yeah. Because he was coming off of that. Remember Cage Rage? Yeah. So he was coming off of the Lee Murray fight. He was coming off. Who did he fight over there as well? He fought Jorge Rivera. Yeah. [1:55:26] That was a big fight. There was a Tony Fricklin one where he did that crazy step-in elbow. Oh, yeah. I saw the highlight of that. I didn't know that was the name, but I know the elbow you're talking about. That elbow, do you know he had a practice with his wife because his coach wouldn't let him try it? Really? His coach was like, stop doing that. You're not going to do that. He goes, I'm going to hit him with this. He's like, no, you're not going to do that. Stop training that. So we didn't want him training that. So he told his wife to hold a pillow. So his wife was holding a pillow at home, and he was going like this. Yeah. [1:55:53] - - [1:55:54] over and over again he was just practicing no way he wanted to do some on box shit what a great story to have that was anderson like people didn't people saw him in his prime for sure obviously because he's one of the greatest of all time but for sure they didn't see that transition to him becoming in his prime and that was in cage rage because he had some really good fights in in pride but then when he went to cage rage like something flipped man you know how it has sort of like olivera when it happened to him after he had his kid you know something flips sometimes

[1:56:24] in and then they become who they really are. Yeah, who everyone around them knows because they've seen it in the gym but no one else has seen it. It's a... [1:56:33] It's weird. Like, I always say that about myself. [1:56:37] I still haven't. [1:56:39] I'm still not the guy that everyone knows in the gym. I show a little bit more every time, but I'm not even that guy. Well, maybe just changing of environment and coaching will allow you to hit that spot. The coaching, like you were talking about earlier, right? [1:56:53] It has been the hardest thing for me to let go of control and give it to someone else. But it took... [1:56:59] It was kind of one of those things. I met Horacio and Mike, and I have obviously a lot of trust and a lot of faith in Bilal. I've known him for a long time, and I see what he's done. But I met these guys and Max too. I met him. [1:57:13] for [1:57:13] five days when I was with Bilal. And to sit back and watch them also have my own interactions with them, it just felt like one of those things you just feel like you're friends instantly, like you've known each other forever. And that's kind of what that connection was with them. So honestly, it was a little bit easier than normal to let go of the control of controlling – [1:57:32] What I'm going to do, when I'm going to do it, the strategy. Did you think about other camps as well? Did you think about – I didn't think I was going to leave to be honest with you. I didn't think I was going to leave Florida. I was just going there to help my friend and just kind of see what I could do different, like what I could change in my own thing. [1:57:48] But then obviously – [1:57:50] My goal... [1:57:51] After being there, because he was getting ready for Jack. Bilal was. So I watched everything. I helped him for a few days. And then I went back. I fought...

[1:58:00] Marvin... [1:58:02] And I was at, I did two or three weeks. [1:58:05] with, uh, [1:58:06] Chicago [1:58:08] Two weeks. I did two weeks. [1:58:10] Excuse me. I did two weeks, and then... [1:58:13] I did like four or five in Florida. So I was like, okay, next time I'm just going to do split it four and four. You know, spend my time mix and match. Because it was a great time, like, for me. Then I fought the Ritter. He was there and I was like... [1:58:27] I don't know, it didn't sit well with me how all that stuff went. [1:58:30] like how he got there and everything and everyone was like oh why is he fighting him their teammates and i told everyone from the beginning like you can ask gilbert burns because he said it on his little podcast thing he did i always said i'm not gonna train with him i'm gonna fight him one day [1:58:43] I'm good. [1:58:44] no animosity i just don't need no more friends i just don't right um i have enough guys the guys that i know that i'm friends with joe peiffer rod gregory rodriguez uh by sangor [1:58:57] Those are guys that are going to be at the top or at the top that – [1:59:00] We have agreements only for a belt. I'll fight anyone on this planet for a belt. Anyone. And I expect the same in return because it could change their lives or my own. So they know that about me. But no matter what the time frame is, if you say yes to me or you say my name, we're going to fight. [1:59:17] That's it. Like, that's how I feel. But those guys are the guys that I have with, and now they're all coming to the top. So it's like, you know, someday it's probably going to happen. So it's like, I don't need to do more friends. Dana hates hearing that kind of shit. Like, guys won't fight friends. Yeah, but I'll fight for a belt, though. Anyone on the whole planet. Godzilla, I'll fight for the whole belt. I don't care. And Ghanu, I'll fight him for a belt. I don't care. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it could change my whole life, like my family's. Sure, yeah. So, like, I'm very realistic because, obviously –

[1:59:45] Even if you love to do this at this level, you're going to be a good person. [1:59:48] It's about the money too. Like, [1:59:50] You know, it's financial freedom. It's about making intelligent choices because one slip up could set you back two years. Yeah, I'm learning that. Yeah. I learned that the hard way. Well, that's also important to learn, right? It's also important to have those setbacks. Those setbacks are some of the most important growth points in your career, in anybody's career, if you do it right. Like those setbacks are when you feel that ugliness and then you really have to assess what could I have done differently. Right. What am I doing wrong? [2:00:20] my mindset or something about my diet? Is there something about my recovery? Am I doing too much of this or too little of that? [2:00:27] You have to have that pain. If everything is just going great, the thing going into the fight was Aspinall's every fight other than the Curtis Blades fight was a one-round fight. It was him blowing guys out. And so no one really knew what was going to happen if we got into round three, round four, round five. And so that question is always hovering over the head. When a guy like you who has been in those wars and been in the trenches, you've already had – that's a blessing. [2:00:53] It really is a blessing because it gives you not just the motivation to return better than you were before. Like look at Bo Nickel after he lost, right? He loses to DeRitter, comes back and smokes Adolfo Vieira. Looked like a different guy. Looks like a different guy. Why? Because there's a blessing in losing. There's a blessing in failure. There really is because if you can swallow it, it will give you a fucking furnace inside you to come back stronger.

[2:01:23] it but some guys can't swallow it they choke on it and they cry and and maybe their confidence gets shattered and they're never the same again or maybe they go why am i doing this i could be a carpenter i always wanted to play drums i've thought of that i thought of that but i don't want to go back to being a carpenter i'm good with that a guy like tom aspinall when he gets to a fight with a guy like gangano or a guy who's going to be there those questions and i'm not saying that he wouldn't succeed i'm not saying he wouldn't win but those questions might be in your [2:01:53] Because you haven't been in those high-profile wars before where you came up short. You know, I still get those questions. I'm such a perfectionist. [2:02:03] and I know nothing will ever be perfect, but I want as close to it as I can get. That's a great mindset. I find something. I will always find something to be negative. But what's helped me is I had a sports psychiatrist for a while. He was great. Um... [2:02:17] And... [2:02:18] I learned a lot with him. And for me, it's been about like I'm very like open with people that I care about and that I know care solely about me. They're not worried about if I win or lose or, you know, all that stuff, the fame. They're not worried about that. They care about me as a person. And that was something that was great with Bilal and Horacio and all the guys in Chicago, Mike, Max. You know, we talk regularly. How are you, man? How's the family? Everything good? But I'm very open with them leading up to the fight. Like there's a clip from behind the scenes of the last fight where I'm – [2:02:47] I'm open and they catch it. Like, this is me being vulnerable of who I am. I was too manly or whatever or trying to suppress it before where it just grew into something bigger. And I would mentally shut down. Malcoon was the worst fight for me for that. I was shaking in the bed the night before. Like, I thought I was freezing, but I wasn't. I was so nervous of like, I can't lose to this guy. He's not on my level. And then I go out there and perform not that well. So your mind was fucking you. Yeah. Because I find one negative thing and I just focus and I make it huge.

[2:03:17] times. [2:03:18] I think it's good sometimes, but it's like almost like you have to be critical but yet also confident. Right, and I would take my confidence away by focusing on it. But being able to talk about it, like, again, they have that moment. I have it on my Instagram. They made a clip or whatever for me. [2:03:34] It was – it's just – literally, it was two nights before the fight, three nights before the fight. And we're talking and I'm telling him, he could get me down. [2:03:42] he could finish me but if he finishes me on the ground he's got to be just that good but I'm nervous I'm nervous that I'm not going to go out here and perform to what I know that I can do to me that's the worst I don't mind losing to someone that's better than me I can take it I haven't found that man yet [2:03:58] But... [2:03:59] I know it's going to happen. [2:04:01] But to lose to someone truly better than me, [2:04:04] I can accept it. But to lose to myself, oh man, to look in the mirror, it eats me alive. I think those things that can creep into your head before a fight where I don't want to lose, I don't want to disappoint people, I don't want to do this, then that is a really bad time to have those thoughts. It's not a bad time to have those thoughts when you're working on stuff. It's not a bad time to have those thoughts. Like if you're really trying to motivate yourself to get up in the morning and run or whatever it is, like to really get after it and strength and conditioning, [2:04:31] But when you're fighting, like you have to have a strategy of how to squash those thoughts when they come up. And I mean it's not just fighting. Anybody who's listening to this, anything in life that you have to do that's really difficult and scares you, you've got to know how to squash negative thoughts before they burn your house down. Like when you see the fire, stomp that bitch out quick.

[2:05:01] those little creepy demon thoughts, they'll get in, and then they start running around. They start running around. They start screaming and taking over your brain. You're like, get out of my head! Get out of my head! But they're already in there. You let them in. You let them in. And [2:05:16] Sometimes they have to burn your house down before you realize what the danger is of them getting inside your head. Right. And so then the next time, you've got to come up with a strategy to squash it before it gets too crazy. We did a lot of like – at the beginning of like sports psychiatrists, like that was one thing, right? Like I would suppress it right away and suppress it and it would try to creep back through and I'd suppress it again. But then it just gets bigger and stronger to where it can just come out. And you don't know when it's going to come out. It could be the night of the fight. It could be the day before the fight. It could be in the fight. [2:05:46] it in. [2:05:46] Whatever that emotion is for you, dissecting it, like literally get to the root of why you think this. Like, oh, I think he can knock me out if I dissect it. Well, yeah, he's knocked a lot of guys out, but anyone can knock anyone out. Right. Anyone can. So what are you nervous of? You've done this, like for me, over 30 times. Like, what are you worried about? You fought on the biggest level. You've main evented. You're ranked in the world. You fought some of the best in the world. Like, what are you worried about? You let a demon sneak into your brain.

[2:06:16] and being open and honest with my coaches and the people that I care about and that care about me has been such a great thing for me. I'm kind of the guy like... [2:06:25] sometimes like just I've learned about myself is just like, just let me talk. Sometimes I'm not a big talker, but just let me talk. If, [2:06:34] You don't even have to say nothing, but damn, that's all right, bro. [2:06:37] That's why Tuco, who you always see me with, normally he's always with me. Bro, he's the best at just like... [2:06:43] listening to me like it's not very often but when i do want to talk like i'm like bro like he'll ask me what's wrong i don't think you want to hear it today like i'm good he'll ask me that a couple times eventually i'll just let it out and then i'm good i'm good like it's almost like you have to tell somebody what what's going on inside your head and if you keep it inside your head there's the wings the wings are coming demons flying monkeys throwing fire bombs inside your [2:07:13] So it's like that's been great for me. That's really helped. And I've had a couple of younger kids that have asked me, oh, how's that? And I turned them on to my guy that I used to use. What did you do with the psychiatrist? What were the sessions like? [2:07:27] We would talk about things like this. He'd have worksheets and stuff like this. But you know what really, really sunk in? So first we worked on like – [2:07:33] learning to catch emotions. He called it something, but learning to catch different emotions before they grow. So you can dissect the fire. Yeah, exactly. Before it burns your house. So like recognizing first is recognizing anything you have to recognize. If you recognize it 30 minutes, you're,

[2:07:48] The first time, all right, let's try for 25 the next time. Don't let it – like you thought on it for 30 minutes and you're like, fuck, why am I thinking about this? Right. Let's do 25. So keep it until you can get it like right away. Then we dissect it and then we move on about our day. Things that helped me at the beginning were like – Does it help you talking with a different person, like another person about this rather than just bouncing it off your own head? Yes, for sure. Something about talking to another person makes it real? Yeah, and it just like gets it out. Like I'm holding it in, holding it in, holding it in. [2:08:18] As soon as I talk, it's like it's literally like leaving my body. Like the stress just kind of like – and sometimes they have like good things to say, like things like that. My sports psychiatrist was the one that told me those things. Like, bro, you've done this how many times? You fought these guys? Did he ever work with fighters before? He was working with a small team in New Orleans. And now he's got other guys in the UFC now because they would ask me and I'd turn him on. And he's great. His name is Eric. He's really great. He's from New Orleans. Because I would think if a guy was like a sports psychiatrist for like tennis – [2:08:46] It's like some things would carry over, but it's a very different thing. And he trained as well. He grew up wrestling and stuff. Oh, okay. Perfect guy then. Exactly. And it just – [2:08:55] It worked out great, man. I learned a lot. Like I kind of figured out what worked for me. So I was like, all right. And I get so busy. But another thing he gave me was you read it. [2:09:06] The day, like after you weigh in, you read it and then you finish, like it has a part where it says read up to this point. And then you read this, the rest of the section, uh, the day of the fight. And it's, I forget the author. I have it in my phone somewhere, uh, that he sent me a long time ago. And I would read it before every fight, everyone, like the apex when we was in the apex all the time. We I'd weigh in and we had to wait that like two hours till like we could face off if you weigh in first. And I'd sit there and I'd read it.

[2:09:36] - Thank you. [2:09:37] Like one of his main – base things is like hope. The word hope. Hold on. Possibilities exist. Like don't ever think it's over. It's done. Don't ever say I have to do something. I want to do something. I don't have to. The minute you start putting – [2:09:50] I have to is the moment you start like he says like put like change you hit the emergency stop button the emergency brake on your car like you got to let it off. You're not performing at your best with all those things. So like stuff like that really like sets in and I try to remind myself. So like reminding myself of those things talking about it is really like what helps me. Is it a book? It's like a little pamphlet pamphlet. Yeah, kind of. I know who wrote it. It's in my phone. I could find it. Well, just like so other people can look at it. [2:10:18] Because it sounds pretty powerful. It was great, man. And if it helped you. There's a lot of, like, hokey sort of self-help stuff online. You know, be a fucking man. Go out and get it done. And there's a wolf inside of you and all that kooky shit. But the reality is there's a lot of wisdom out there, too. There's a lot of, like, you could read meditations by Marcus Aurelius and literally learn how to live a better life. Like, there's a lot of stuff out there that's very beneficial. [2:10:48] like yourself has something that really helped them. I think it's probably good to put it out there so other people could get it. It's so crazy. Now I'm looking through the documents and stuff that he sent me. Mindfulness was the word I was looking for when you catch it. Mindfulness, stuff like that. Mindfulness is one of them co-opted words. It's been co-opted like gratitude and spirituality. It's one of them words that too many kooky people use. Yeah, exactly. The first time he told me, I was like...

[2:11:14] Bro, don't tell me where I think you're going to do some crazy shit, bro. I'm not that kind of guy, you know? Don't you hit me with no mindfulness, son. Yeah, man. But look, I'm literally going through right here, right? But it's real. And he would send me stuff, right? Before a fight or like... So you send me quotes? Yeah. [2:11:27] He'd send me YouTube links. [2:11:29] Look at the second one. [2:11:31] From the top. [2:11:34] Who is it with me? David Goggins. David Goggins? Oh, that's hilarious. He sent me that. Stuff like this. Goggins is a perfect example of that. He says things all the time that I think of. Jocko. When I'm working out and I'm really tired, I think of this one Jocko video. [2:11:50] Where it's called good. [2:11:51] Have you ever seen that video? No. You want to get fired up? Yeah, I want to see it. Can we play that? We'll get fired up. This is one of my all-time favorite videos. You know Jocko, right? Jocko. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Jocko, you know, was a Navy SEAL and was, he's got a book called Extreme Ownership. One. And. [2:12:11] It's just the way he thinks, the way he carries himself is... [2:12:16] It's so beneficial if you can adopt this that there's sometimes where I'm training, where I'm fucking really tired and I want to quit. I think of Jocko and I go, good, you're tired. That means you're going to get stronger. [2:12:29] Listen to this. This is fucking amazing. One of my direct subordinates, one of my guys that worked for me. He would call me up or... [2:12:35] pull me aside with some major problem, some issue that was going on. And he'd say, boss, we got this and that and the other thing. And I'd look at him and I'd say... [2:12:44] good. And finally, one day he was telling me about some issue that he was having some problem. And he said, I already know what you're going to say.

[2:12:53] I said, "Well, what am I going to say?" He said, "You're going to say good." He said, "That's what you always say. When something is wrong and going bad, you always just look at me and say good." [2:13:07] And I said, well, yeah. [2:13:10] Things are going bad. [2:13:12] there's going to be some good. [2:13:15] That's going to come from it. Didn't get the new high-speed gear we wanted? Good. Didn't get promoted? [2:13:23] Good. More time to get better. Oh, mission got canceled? Good. We can focus on another one. Didn't get funded? Didn't get the job you wanted? Got injured? Sprained my ankle? Got tapped out? Good. Got beat? Good. We learned. [2:13:45] problems to good. We have the opportunity to figure out a solution. [2:13:53] That's it. [2:13:54] When things are going bad [2:13:57] Don't get all bummed out. Don't get startled. Don't get frustrated. If you can say the word good, guess what? It means you're still alive. It means you're still breathing. And if you're still breathing, well, now you still got some fight left in you. So get up, dust off.

[2:14:26] reload [2:14:28] Recalibrate. Re-engage. [2:14:34] and go out on the attack. [2:14:40] Oh, yeah. That's a good one. That's a good one. Play that one when you're in the fucking dressing room. This is what it is. Getting ready. I don't know if it's a document. So these are the things he sends you? Yeah. Okay. So it's called How Sports Psychology Can Help You Do Your Best When It Means the Most. Unedited Copy, who's the author? Yeah. [2:15:01] So to say. [2:15:02] Rob Gilbert, Ph.D., Montclair State University, Montclair, New Jersey. [2:15:09] Okay. It's pretty cool. God, I'll ask you to send me that afterwards. Yeah, of course. I love shit like that. There's little things like that you can carry in your toolbox and they can help you. And not just if you're a professional fighter, but in basically everything in life. [2:15:26] It's been... [2:15:28] Thank you. [2:15:29] It really helped change my perspective. How's Bilal doing? Who fucking gets poked in the eye more than that guy? Jesus Christ. Nobody. That guy has had – I think he's had something insane like nine eye surgeries. I know he's had three of the hard ones. Like of the – he literally – he told me this story. He had to drive home six hours, his – [2:15:47] uh... [2:15:49] excuse me, his wife came and got him and brought him home. But this is a while back. He had to drive six hours with his head like that because something with the pressure, uh,

[2:15:57] You can't sit straight up with it. It's crazy. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network, the perks of big wireless for half the cost. [2:16:27] just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at visible.com. Plan start at just $25 a month or get our premium visible plus pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code Rogan, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. [2:16:54] This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew, the number one brand for better sex. Blue Chew just dropped something crazy, Blue Chew Gold. Blue Chew has made it easy for 5 million men to get hard, but now they've made it easier to get horny too. Blue Chew Gold gets your brain and body on the same page fast. Other options just help blood flow, but Gold combines four ingredients into one tablet that works fast. [2:17:24] and two, boost arousal and intimacy. So for a good time, go to BlueChew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with promo code ROGAN. You also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. Blue Chew is number one for a reason.

[2:17:54] Explained it to me, but it's like it blows my mind. I couldn't believe he got poked again by in gear I couldn't believe it what the moment he got poked. I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe it's happening. I thought the same thing Oh my god, look at that. Look at that finger in his deep in his fucking eyeball. That is so crazy [2:18:12] That's so crazy [2:18:14] So he's had major surgeries on his eyes. Yep. And then... [2:18:18] Ian poked him, like right away. I was like, this is crazy. I don't know how you feel, but I feel like it should be an instant one-point deduction. At least. Every time. At least. I like what Tom Aspinall said. He was like, no, you poked me in my eye. You want me to continue? Okay, no problem. I get to poke him in his eye. Right. I was like, eh. A lot of people are talking shit about Tom, but he apparently still can't see. Yeah. Like his eyes still fucked up. Like no one knows. Here's the thing. The other eye got hurt as well, but not as bad, but it looks way worse. Yeah. [2:18:48] goes way deeper in the other eye dude eye pokes bro he went straight three stooges boink and you know it's it's crazy that everyone that talks the most shit has never been poked in the eye not even a little bit like accidentally oh it's horrible you know it's like a a bolt of lightning in your brain and then you can't see and if the idea that you can't see and then you're supposed to fight a guy also you're fighting a guy in Ian Gary who has a fucking nasty left hand so if you get poked in [2:19:18] nasty right hand too. I mean, Ian Gary can strike. Oh God, look at that. So look at the right one, the one, excuse me, the left eye. That's deeper. And that one didn't get hurt as bad. It's his right eye that really got hurt.

[2:19:31] The left one... [2:19:33] is like finger knuckle deep in his eyeball, man. Dude, it's crazy. You know, like Balal is like one of those guys you talk about 365, 24-7. He's ready. He's doing something always. I'm even like, bro, take a break, bro. You've earned a little break. Take a week off. Be with your family, you know. [2:19:51] He won't. Well, at his stage of his life, it might be the only way to keep going because he's at like 38 now. Right. Yeah. Something like that. It's like that's the same age as Usman. And, you know, you can still be a world class fighter at that age. You can clearly see that with Camaro against Joaquin Buckley. A lot of people counted him out because Joaquin Buckley was fucking a lot of people. Yeah, he was. Joaquin Buckley, bro. Woo. That guy's a problem. He's a fucking problem. I've known him for a minute, man. [2:20:21] He's wild and fast, and he keeps getting better. He's really fucking intelligent about how to land shots. He knows how to set things up. And he likes to fight. He loves to fight. And he's just... [2:20:34] Just a dog, just in the fight, man. He's always dangerous. That Wonderboy fight, you know, he's having a little bit of problems solving that distance and that range until he didn't. Until he didn't, man. Bro, that dude's got hammers in his fist. Yes. So when watching Kamaru just ragdoll him like that, I was like, God damn. Fuck yeah. It looked like Kamaru world champion level Kamaru. Yeah. Like a lot of people have kind of counted him out because there's this narrative that he puts out there openly about his knees.

[2:21:04] Yeah. [2:21:04] Oh, he talked about it on this podcast openly. His knees are fucked. He's like, I got to go downstairs backwards sometimes. Yeah. Because they hurt so much. I heard he went and did like a lot of stuff to like... [2:21:14] redo them and now he says they're good but i don't i don't know i don't know well uh i know he went to columbia he went down to uh that uh bioaccelerator place in columbia i don't know if he's been to the place in tijuana that the ufc uses now the the cellular performance institute but they're all very similar we're being held back to such a fucking ridiculous extent in this country by the fda that you don't realize how many people with neurological conditions how many people [2:21:44] by stem cells, and there's no evidence that they're damaging people. There's no evidence. I mean, look, any time you have any invasive procedure, any time you have a surgery, there's always some risk that something can go wrong. There's always a risk in any medical procedure. But there's no outstanding risks versus reward to stem cells. On the contrary, the evidence is outstanding results, including, like, [2:22:14] Panama with people that have like severe neurological problems, guys that have had CTE, like real, real, real bad fucking other than just injuries. And then even injuries like my mom had a really bad knee and I sent her down there and it got a lot better. I sent her down there twice. A lot better. Mel Gibson, his dad couldn't walk. He was like almost 90. He was like 80 years old.

[2:22:44] his hips a bunch of other stuff and did mel as well and he's like no my dad was like up and walking around like five years later still like like he was 10 years younger like he's a great actor by the way oh mel he's the man he's the man i love that guy [2:23:00] He's crazy, too. He's so interesting. That guy's got like a fucking tornado going on in his brain all the time. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's why he's such a good director, man. Did you ever see Apocalypto? Yeah, one of my favorites. I fucking love that movie. Same. It's one of my favorites. It's such a good movie. I love that movie, too, for sure. Such a good movie, man. Such a good movie. He plays some great ones. I mean, he made a movie where nobody speaks English. Exactly. And it's a blockbuster. And it's amazing. It's fucking incredible. Dude. It's fucking incredible. I love that one. [2:23:30] his old stuff too, like Braveheart. Braveheart was amazing. Passion of the Christ was really good too, man. The Patriot was good. Yeah, dude, he's fucking, he's the real deal, man. Mel Gibson's the real fucking deal. What's the one he... [2:23:42] I think I'm crazy, but I think it's Think Like a Woman. [2:23:46] You ever seen that one? I did not. Bro, that is freaking hilarious. What is it? It's like... [2:23:52] He gets trapped in like – he can like read a woman's mind. And so because like he's basically a guy. He works – he's a journalist or like a publisher or something like that. [2:24:03] And he's very like a womanizer. Like he has women and just like whatever. And they're always like talking shit about him behind his back like everyone else. So now like he's trying to move up the ranks. He's supposed to be next in line for a promotion. Well, he has his daughter come in and she leaves the –

[2:24:19] blow dryer and he trips on it and falls in the uh the water gets electrocuted and he wakes up and now he can hear all women's thoughts and it like changes who he is as a person nothing it's amazing like she gets his promotion so now he 2000 bro great funny is hell and hunt [2:24:39] He's been great in a lot of – he was great in that conspiracy theory movie. Was that – was it Julia Roberts? Mm-hmm. [2:24:45] Yeah, he was a wacky conspiracy theorist guy. I don't think I've seen that one. It's pretty good. It's called conspiracy theory. Oh, is that what it's called? That's hilarious. I haven't seen that one. [2:24:55] I think a lot of the things that he talked about now, it's like people openly discuss online because this was all before the internet. What year was that? [2:25:04] 97? 97. Yeah, so there were no conspiracy theory websites back then. Or not a lot. He has another one where his wife works – or his daughter, I'm sorry. His daughter works for this company. She comes home, and it's like one of those rich companies that hide stuff, but you never can tell because you never have proof. And she's working in a secret department. She comes home all frantic, and the dude yells something, shoots her with a shotgun right on his front door. Boom! Kills her. So obviously then he goes and starts trying to figure everything out, and he starts figuring out through the way, [2:25:34] what the work was doing it was like poisoning or something well anyway he finds the guy and ends up killing him but he ends up dying too because he got the poison from wherever he went in to the workspace like he followed he was doing all kind of shit but it was super cool too what movie is that i don't know [2:25:48] You know that movie? [2:25:49] where he shoots his daughter on the front step. That was one of the things that sold the movie. That was one of the previews. Well, how about Lethal Weapon? First time we ever saw anybody do a triangle in a movie. True. Right? Yeah. That was crazy. I like his movies. I love that scene. That scene, I was like, what is he doing? I didn't even know what a triangle was back then.

[2:26:08] Because I think that was in the 80s. I wasn't even alive. When did Lethal Weapon 1 come out? [2:26:14] Edge of Darkness. That's it. It's a weapon. I think it's like 87 or 88. Yeah, man. So back then, no one knew what a fucking triangle was other than the Gracies. People in Brazil knew. Brazil was so far ahead of the curve, man. They were having MMA fights in the 30s. Dude, I went there for my boy Tuco. He fought in the favela, right? [2:26:34] Yeah, look at this. [2:26:36] Was it Gary Busey who was fighting in the end? Who was the guy who was fighting in the end? I don't remember. I think it's Gary Busey, right? [2:26:43] Yeah, it is Gary Busey. You know, he had a headache. [2:26:47] movies in the 80s are so wild dude [2:27:04] Thank you. [2:27:06] We don't need to watch the whole thing. Let's just cut to the triangle. This is silly. I thought I was coming. I thought so too. [2:27:15] Oh, Gary Busey tried to take it to the ground. Outrageous. Mel got swept so easily. Oh, Mel's on top. [2:27:23] Yeah. [2:27:25] everybody was doing cocaine when they were right move oh look at that he goes right for an armor oh sloppy terrible terrible left hook the left leg like barely held on there that was some [2:27:37] Wow, there it is. That's not bad. That's not bad. That's pretty good. I like that. He got a good angle. Oh, that's not bad at all. That's tight. He's cinching it up right there. Everybody at home is like, what is happening? Another man put his legs around another man's head. I remember when Hoist Gracie did that to Dan Severin. Everybody was like, what's going on?

[2:27:54] Like, what is happening? And then all of a sudden you see Dan Severn tap, and you're like, what? What happened? What did he do? [2:28:00] Put him to sleep. [2:28:04] My friend would know better the lineage and stuff, right? That's where he's my intelligence. But we went to Brazil, right, for his fight. He was fighting in the favela at Jose Aldo's gym. Novo Uñao? Yeah. It's like right on the edge of the favela. It's nice, though. Yeah. Andre Pedenares? Yeah. He was there. He was super nice. He's awesome. He was super nice. Super hospitable. That guy's a pioneer, dude. Yes. He was fighting MMA in early days. [2:28:30] Oh, yeah. Andre Pettit. Oh, my God, man. Yeah. He's a legend. I just know him. We met a lot of great guys, but we – [2:28:37] We were there with Daniel Gracie. [2:28:39] And I think it's Henzo's mom. [2:28:42] And then his dad, like the whole lineage was there before he passed away. He was there. We went over there and we were sitting on their couch, chilling, hanging out, talking, meeting all of them. And again, I am absolutely God awful with names. [2:28:55] But... [2:28:56] I knew, like, as soon as he'd come out of the stairs, he was going somewhere. He had a nice jacket. Oh, no, he was doing an interview with – [2:29:02] He was doing an interview, like a little podcast or something. It was all in Portuguese. I couldn't understand what they were saying. But, dude, met him. Super nice. And then, like... [2:29:11] I think it wasn't too long after that he passed away, but that's one of the starts of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Was it Ilio? Yeah. [2:29:18] Was it Carlos? Who was it? [2:29:21] Carlos I think I don't know it doesn't matter it was one of them right I could figure it out though okay but dude super nice like they were all explaining like the lineage and I've I started with what's that Jamie

[2:29:32] Oh, sorry. I started with Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. I used to know that lineage fairly well, but then you know how life is. You just get away and kind of forget you're not around it as much. Yeah, well, it's a crazy lineage. I mean, that one family is responsible for changing mixed martial arts. Dude, they were telling us so many cool stories, like things that I had heard through the – [2:29:52] grapevine, you know, from other people when I was younger, but they confirmed it and like, [2:29:57] They were even asking where the beef comes from in the family. What started that? Exactly what started it. Because obviously he was in it. They translated for us. But he was saying how it all got started. But beef between what parts of the family? [2:30:11] two beefs that they have [2:30:14] No, it was Carlos and one of the brothers went out on their own. [2:30:20] Because he was like, I don't want nothing to do with this part of the family. [2:30:24] Was it Horian? [2:30:25] Maybe it was. I know that name. They were saying that name a lot. Horian started the UFC. Yeah, it might have been him. And Horian also trained Mel Gibson. [2:30:33] Okay. For this lethal weapon fight scene. There he is, Horry and Gracie. Yeah. Horry and Gracie in Playboy magazine challenged Mike Tyson to a no rules fight. [2:30:43] See, I don't want to sound stupid, so I don't like to say too many names, but you're going to make me call my friend and ask him when we leave here. Well, Elio was his father. Hickson's obviously his brother. Hoyce's his brother. Hoyler's his brother. I think Hoyler and Hoyce are half-brothers. Yes, I knew that. They were saying that. But they were just kind of like going over old times and stories and they were talking about that because apparently –

[2:31:05] They were saying like – well, Daniel was saying like within – [2:31:09] the family, because he's a Gracie, but I think he's, like, it was... [2:31:13] His mom or something like that was – so she's still a Gracie. But anyway – or his – no, his cousin. [2:31:20] was a Gracie. So technically like [2:31:22] He's not a real blood Gracie. I don't know. They tried to explain it. It's very weird. But anyway, we were there and they don't talk about it, like why there's a divide between this side of the family and this side. And they explained to like even when they were kids, like they would go in and get into it. Like say you'd go in and you get in a fight in the street, just like maybe you're 12 years old. [2:31:41] It started, they said, like, basically that young, that, like, there was a divide between whatever one and this one. And, um... [2:31:49] Because they would go get in a fight and he would come back and rat on them. [2:31:52] And he was like, bro, come on. So it started as that young. And he said it was a lot. It wasn't even like, oh, it was just one time. No, like multiple times. So it was just interesting to hear these stories that these guys had of when they were young in the streets fighting in Rio. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a video of Hickson fighting somebody on the beach. Yeah. They talk about it. Some Lutalibre guy smacks him on the beach. He talks about it. They were talking about it. They're fighting in the sand, scrapping on the beach. Daniel was there for that. Really? Daniel was there. [2:32:22] He was there. He said they show the picture of it, and he was right in the back. Hickson has his little surfer shorts on. Yep. [2:32:30] Daniel explained how it started. [2:32:32] I don't remember that exact details, but dude, it was like. Well, they would dojo storm each other. They would show up at places and challenge like Luta Livre gyms and Luta Livre guys would show up at the Gracie Dojo. Dude, it was like. Yeah, here it is. Look at Hickson with them beautiful colored shorts on. He just smacks him. Like, come on, baby. It's on. And the dude's like, take your shoes off. Come on. Let's go.

[2:32:55] Like there, hold my shoes. [2:32:58] Bro, these were wild times. Yeah. Especially when you take into consideration Hickson's widely considered one of the absolute greatest jiu-jitsu practitioners of all time. [2:33:08] you know and then he was willing to have these kind of fights [2:33:11] On the beach in Rio, these no-rules fights just surrounded by dudes. And man thongs. Yeah. I mean, and not have any striking. Look, see how Hickson's winging punches? These guys had no striking at all. [2:33:24] It's really kind of crazy. I mean, not not ever saying there's anything wrong with anything that Hickson ever did, because he's like one of the greatest of all time. But if you look at the difference between a guy that's just a pure grappler like Hickson, even when he fought in pride, remember, he'd come out with this, throw those little stomp kicks, just try to get he's just getting you to the ground. It's all getting you to the ground. There's no one like that now. [2:33:45] No one has very little stand-up. There's no one who fights like that. And it's crazy because there's so many stories about Hoist wasn't even supposed to be the one to fight. [2:33:56] You know? [2:33:57] He wasn't even supposed to be the one. They were supposed to have the other one. Well, Hickson was always the champion of the family. And Hoist had always said that. Hickson was ten times better than him. He said, Hickson tap me every day. Every day I go to the gym, Hickson tap me. But it's just like, that's just how it was. [2:34:13] the result was a lot of rumors one of the rumors was [2:34:17] So this is the narrative. Hoy says it's because he's so beautiful. He's like, look at his face. Of course they picked me. That's what he said on the podcast. It was hilarious because he's so handsome. But Hickson's handsome too, so it didn't make any sense. But it was –

[2:34:31] I think it was because Hoist could show that it was the technique. Because, like, Hickson was shredded. Yeah. He was pretty jacked, too. And he looked like a world champion athlete. Whereas Hoist looked like a 170-pound guy who was, like, you know, not that muscular. And it was just technique. It was him using beautiful jiu-jitsu technique that nobody knew what it was. It was, like, the best advertisement ever for jiu-jitsu. And you see a 175-pound guy tapping out Dan Severin. [2:35:01] Dressler and Ken Chimo when he got him in that arm bar. All the shit that Hoist did. Ken Shamrock when he tapped him. Crazy to watch a guy that's so much smaller than everybody else dominate everyone and everyone was afraid of him. So it was like the perfect thing. And the thought was, okay, well if he ever does lose [2:35:17] We always have Hickson. Right. And then Bud Hickson went off to Japan, and he did Japan Vali Tudo, and then he did Pride. [2:35:24] you know [2:35:26] There was talk at one point, Tom, of Hickson fighting Fedor. They were throwing money around for Hickson after he fought in that Coliseum show, which I think was in 2000. When did he fight Funaki? [2:35:40] When did Hickson fight Funaki? [2:35:42] I think it was the year 2000, and they were talking about Hickson fighting Fedor. They had made him an offer, Japan, for him to come over, and he wanted to do it. It never came. I wish you could have heard, like, again, because I'm so bad with names, and my memory is not as good as it used to be, but if... [2:35:59] It's one of my favorite memories from fighting.

[2:36:02] 2000 yeah yeah yeah yeah it's one of my favorite memories from fighting just sitting there and listening to these guys because the the history was freaking insane the stories were awesome like [2:36:13] But like I said, I'm terrible with names, so I'm very bad with like... So look at that. Andre Pedneris on that card versus Genki Sudo. Sure is. Ended in a draw. And Genki Sudo was a bad motherfucker. That's how good Pedneris was. [2:36:27] Didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Pedner's was legit man. Damn very legit very legit. Yeah, and I know he's a great coach I didn't know he fought in the early early days You know I mean it was he might have even fought in extreme combat did he fight in extreme combat? I [2:36:45] He might have like that was back in the day when Mario Sperry first burst on the scene. He fought back then Igor Zinoviev all these dudes that everybody forgot about. They fought and that was John Peretti's card. So John Peretti who was the commentator for the early days of the UFC then John Peretti went over and started his own organization for a while. [2:37:04] I think like sometimes – well, I know. Like I said, I'm bad at names, right? But it's like – [2:37:09] I went and fought in Seattle last year. [2:37:11] or this year i fought in seattle this year and uh they did like there was amanda nunez robbie lawler and there was one more they got inducted into the hall of fame this year and uh [2:37:24] Nobody. [2:37:25] could give like... [2:37:27] really any fights for whoever the other person was and not many could give too much for Robbie Lawler.

[2:37:34] I was like, bro, how have you not heard about Robbie Lawler? Oh, you mean they weren't clapping? No, like... So here it is. Let me just go over this real quick. Pedneris, his debut fight, Valley Tudo, Japan. That's what it was. He defeated Rumanosato. And then Pat Miletic for the UFC welterweight title, UFC 21. We lost in the second round, technical knockout. And then he fought Kao Uno. He was a savage. I remember that. That ended in a draw. So Genki Sudo and Kao Uno, two savages. [2:38:04] draws and the last one with Genki Sudo was his last MMA fight. So how many fights did he have overall? [2:38:10] Four fights. [2:38:12] But shit. [2:38:13] They're all good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He fought legit guys, man. Yeah. He beat Ruman Asato. Yeah. [2:38:17] You know, Ruman Asato, man, was fucking terrifying back then. [2:38:21] KO, soccer kick KO. Oof. Damn. Yeah. But, yeah, it was like – [2:38:27] It's just different, man. That time frame is just different, you know? Well, it is... [2:38:31] It's the birth of the sport, and it's kind of amazing to have been there at the very beginning and to be able to watch it. You know, when I first found out about it, I couldn't believe it was real. I had a bunch of friends that told me about it. I think I heard about it from dudes at – do you remember Benny Urquidez? Do you know who he was? No, I don't know. Benny the Jet was a famous kickboxer. Now I'm really going back. I feel like I know that name. He was one of the best kickboxers of all time.

[2:39:01] Benny the Jet was the fucking man in the late 70s and the early 80s. And he had this gym in California, in Van Nuys, California, called the Jet Center. And when I first moved out to California, there's two places I knew I really had to go. One was the Comedy Store, and the other was the Jet Center. And so I got to work out at the Jet Center. And Benny was there, and his cousin Blinky, he was there. And Blinky Rodriguez, who was another elite kickboxer, who actually knocked out Jean-Yves Theriault, who was like one of the best kickboxers of all time. [2:39:31] So it was like this incredible gym. But Benny the Jet Arkitas was like, he was... [2:39:38] early, like the Bill Superfoot Wallace days, like back in those days. [2:39:44] And I forget what I was just saying. I lost my train of thought. What were we just talking about before that? [2:39:51] Man. [2:39:52] Yeah, you moved to L.A. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I had a point. I had a point about these early MMA fighters. Oh, you were saying it's the birth of... [2:39:59] The birth of the sport. So watching that, this is what my point was, watching that where there was not even leg kicks. [2:40:06] to watching all of a sudden you see Rick Rufus, and he fought that dude from Thailand, like one of the most important fights in the history of martial arts, because you get to see that dude from Thailand just chop Rick Rufus' legs apart. And then Rick and Duke fought. [2:40:21] Both learned from that and said, okay, we've got to incorporate that into our game. Duke becomes a world Muay Thai champion after that, which is like – and then Duke becomes one of the best MMA coaches ever. So it changes the entire course of the sport. And when I got into it and started watching it in – that's what it was. So the Jet Center, one of the guys from the Jet Center was like, you've got to see this thing. It's called the UFC. This was in 94. I was like, what? What is it? It was UFC 2. Like I didn't even see UFC 1.

[2:40:51] on VHS. So I watched UFC 2 and I was like, this is crazy. I'm like, how is this guy doing this? Like this is, and I was like, oh my God, like how is everybody so vulnerable to this one guy? Like this is nuts. So I was like, I got to train jujitsu. And [2:41:05] Watching all of these people from that perspective, [2:41:09] that era and watching the level of the competition at that era and what the fights looked like versus today, there's not another sport that, [2:41:18] on earth where you could see a gigantic difference between 1994 and 2025. [2:41:25] Like a gigantic difference where it's unrecognizable. Like that kid that you were talking about before, the 18-year-old kid, what's his name again? Ansar. Ansar. [2:41:32] That guy would have been a world champion. Easy. A world champion. Yeah, easy. Like, no one would have fucked with him. We would have said this is the greatest fighter that's ever walked the face of the planet. For sure. And he's a kid that's on undercards of small regional shows now. [2:41:45] Right? How crazy is that? So like when you see these guys in the Dana White contender series, some of these guys coming up, I'm watching them fight for their first fight in the contender series. I'm like, this guy looks like he'd be fighting for the title. Like they're complete fighters. They're fast. They have good technique. Everything they're doing is smart. It's like... [2:42:02] The level has changed so much in such a short period of time. And I feel so lucky to be able to see the whole thing. [2:42:08] I saw the whole thing, like from the ground floor to today. It's crazy because – [2:42:14] you probably hear it all the time, right? Like I was probably watching Fear Factor before I knew it with the UFC. So when I saw the UFC, I was like,

[2:42:21] Dad, look. It's him. He was like – he looks at me because obviously my dad's seen it before. He's like, yes, son. He's been around a while. He's been in the UFC. I don't even know if it was longer, but I'm sure it was. Yeah, I started working for the UFC in 97. So he was like – he's always been there. So then obviously as I get older, I start seeing history and looking at old fights and older fights. And I notice you there the whole time. And like me and my friend Tuco had these conversations. But I was like, bro – [2:42:49] Joe's a real one, though. He's been here the whole time. How awesome does it have to be for you, Dana, Fertitta's... [2:42:57] And probably a few others too that nobody knows that have seen this thing grow from what it was. [2:43:02] to what it is today oh it's amazing it's got to be it's amazing yeah i feel so lucky i'm so fortunate like it's one of the things i look forward to more than anything in life and like you said c weekend i'm like oh boy here we go i get so excited i've been doing this forever i still i started ufc 12 in 1997 that was the first fight that i ever did uh backstage interviews that's what i did or post-fight interviews too [2:43:26] I think I started doing interviews backstage, and then I interviewed guys after the fight was over. That was early. How did you start there? It was a crazy fluke. So I was already doing jiu-jitsu. I was at Carlson Gracie's. This was back before Vitor made his debut. I was training at Vitor's gym with Mario Sperry. I took lessons from Mario Sperry when I was a white belt. It was awesome, dude. Murillo Bustamante was there all the time.

[2:43:56] Carlson Gracie killers, you know, the two bulldogs fighting each other. Yeah. And Carlson was there every day. So I got to train there when I was on news radio, the sitcom. I was – so it was just like 1996. [2:44:10] I just love that there was – this was before Vitor fought in the UFC. So while he was training at the gym with us, he went and fought this guy John Hess. John Hess was this big – he fought in the UFC as well, I believe – [2:44:21] I believe he did. John Hess was his he had a style called SAFTA. I forget what it was about. But it was like back then dudes would just like make up their own style, street fighting, artistic, finger fucking, you know, they would make up some sort of a fucking acronym. [2:44:35] But Vitor blitzed across the ring. He was 19 years old and just lit this guy up like a machine gun like Got him down Like put him out on the ground like it was so crazy and so fast the most Ferocious display of ground and pound I had ever seen in my life at the time and I was like this is crazy and so [2:44:57] just randomly [2:44:59] They had a guy who was doing the post-fight interviews, and they wanted to get a new guy. And they were looking for people. And the guy, Campbell McLaren, who was the producer of the UFC, happened to be friends with my manager from the comedy club days. Campbell used to work at a comedy club with my manager. And they were just shooting the shit over the phone. He goes, hey, I'm looking for someone to do interviews for the UFC. Do you know anybody that would be interested? He goes, like, Joe is a huge fan. He's like, Joe watches every one of them.

[2:45:29] just so I could watch the UFC because that's when it was banned from cable. So I got my cable removed and I got DirecTV put in my house just so I could watch the UFC because it was the only way you could catch it. [2:45:39] And then it was no money. And I was supposed to fly to New York. But then the last minute it got canceled, they made it illegal in New York. And we had to fly to Dothan, Alabama on a fucking propeller plane. I shared a propeller plane with Randy Couture. [2:45:56] And – [2:45:58] Actually, that was later. That was in Louisiana. I shared a propeller plane with Randy Couture. Randy didn't fight that. But it was Vitor made his debut against Trey Telligman. And everybody thought he was a jiu-jitsu guy because he was from Carlson Gracie. He had a black belt. And he just came out just throwing missiles. Just missiles so fast. Like nobody had seen anything like that. And he was only like 200 pounds back then. He was light and fast and strong as shit. [2:46:28] Ferozo and took him out in the final so he won this heavyweight tournament and that was 1997. That's crazy. That was the third person I was trying to think of when I was in Seattle. So basically what happened UFC was asking fighters hey these three guys they weren't saying they were getting inducted but obviously if you've been around. It was Vitor. It was Vitor. It was Vitor. [2:46:49] Amanda Nunez, [2:46:50] And Robbie Lawler. They weren't cheering for Vitor? That's crazy. No, they were asking the fighters... [2:46:55] They were asking the fighters, hey, do you know who these guys are? If you do, what's your most memorable moment of them? What was your favorite moment? Anything like that, right? Because obviously they put it on the montage when they announce it.

[2:47:13] And two other fighters on the entire card could give a fight from Vitor. I was like, no way. I was like, that highlight that you're talking about when he sprints across, even if you don't know the person, how do you not see that highlight? When he did that to Vanderlei, remember we did it to Vanderlei Silva? That's what I said. That was my Vanderlei was that one. That was crazy, but I think the scariest Vitor of all time was TRT Vitor. [2:47:37] TRT Vitor was the scariest fucking human being that ever stepped into that cage. [2:47:43] HRT. [2:47:43] I think that guy would have been a terror for every fucking human being that weighed [redacted address] he wheel kicked Luke Rockhold, like what the fuck are we looking at, man? We never saw him throw a wheel kick in his whole career. All of a sudden he's wheel kicking guys in the head. [2:47:59] He come in the gym, because obviously I live in Florida. He come in the gym, and he is the nicest guy. Brother, brother, come here, come here. Very nice guy. Let's talk about it. Hey, I think you need to slow down a little bit. These 100% every day is no good, brother. He said, why don't you come? We can have some coffee, have lunch, and let's talk about it. I love the science behind the sport. Wow. But super nice guy, right? Those are conversations that I had with him. If I see him, great guy. [2:48:29] only watched him on TV, you know? But that was like the first interaction I ever had with Vitor as a person. I don't know if he knew who I was. He just watched me spar and then come to me after. That was it. [2:48:39] That's very nice of him. Yeah, super nice guy. And for a real OG like him that's been, again, fighting since 1997. 1997? That's almost 30 years. That's literally crazy. Dude, it hurt my heart when they said that people couldn't say fights for him. Couldn't even say a highlight. It's hard. You know, these young guys, a lot of them are 25 years old. They're 24 years old. They didn't watch the sport. Joshua Van, 24, right? They didn't watch the sport a lot before they were involved in it.

[2:49:09] in the last few years. Yeah, and that's what Josh Vann, that's why I said his name. He's young, but he says the same thing because they were like, why do you think Pantoja's the GOAT? He's like, I know Demetrius Johnson is what everyone says. He was like, [2:49:19] But I never got to see him, you know? Like, I was too young. That's crazy, too. Go watch. It's online. Yeah. Go see it, Joshua. YouTube's free, bro. You're the champ now, Joshua. Go back and watch Mighty Mouse. Because that motherfucker was extraordinary. He was. He was special. Mighty Mouse in his time was extraordinary. Shit. He was so special when he fought that big Brazilian kid and won. Uh-huh. Right. And he lost one, and then he beat him twice, right? Lost the first time in one championship, and then he got KO'd, and then KO'd him the exact same way. Really? Was it? With a knee. Yeah. I didn't know it was the same way. They both got KO'd with knees. [2:49:49] got KO'd against the cage with knees. [2:49:51] It was literally like almost the exact same, except Demetrius's was more artistic. It was beautiful. The flow where he was like chasing him. He rocked him, and then he's chasing him down. He's like, not yet. There it is. And he just launches and catches him with this. You've seen it, right? Yeah, I've seen it. Oh, my God. I didn't know it was the same way. What is that dude's name? The dude he KO'd? [2:50:11] Thank you. [2:50:12] Andre? I don't know. Search Demetrius Johnson flying knee KO1 FC. I bet you'll find it. [2:50:23] Yeah, Adriano Morais. That's it. That's it. And Morais is good, dude. He's really good. He's really big. And 1FC's got that squirrely weight-cutting jazz. [2:50:33] So this is the second fight after Marais had KO'd him in the first fight. And also this is a DJ that's probably 35 years old, right? Right. I mean, and after a long career in the UFC, widely recognized as the greatest flyweight of all time in the UFC. Right.

[2:50:48] and [2:50:49] To me, like, he just didn't get the love that he deserved when he was in his prime because he was 125 pounds. And for whatever reason – I mean, it's not like it's not – [2:50:59] even more interesting to watch. But people have this weird thing, like a heavyweight could beat anyone in the world. A 125-pound guy will dump him on his head. Stop. Watch him fight. Right there. Boom! Oh, that's beautiful. Back it up a second so you can see the sequence. Look, right hand. Timing. Boom. Perfect. The timing is just so beautiful. That's so, look, that's fucking artistic, man. That is so artistic. It's perfect. [2:51:29] The first fight is wild. Dude, I don't know much about, like, Demetrius as a person, but... [2:51:35] From what I've seen of him, obviously because you see more now that he's doing his streaming and stuff. He is like – He's the best. He's the definition of a martial artist. He cares about the pureness of being a martial artist rather than the views or the belt or any of that. So I respect that a lot. He's not like talking stupid shit just to get attention. He hates people that do that kind of stuff. He hates disrespectful stuff. He's such a nice guy but also just so smart about his approach to the sport. [2:52:05] fucking fast man dude one time i grabbed him just as just being silly at a ufc he was in front of me and i put my arms around him like from behind you know like saying hi to somebody yeah and he turned around he looked at me he hit me with two knees to the body like just touched me with it was so fast i was like dude that was so scary you hit me so fast i didn't even see them coming it was like

[2:52:27] It just moved like a cat. And like you said, he was probably 35 or whatever there. He could still compete with the best in the world. With the best in the world. No problem. And juice-free, too. Juice-free with the best in the world. And by the way, over there, I don't know what kind of drug test they're doing, but it's probably multiple choice. [2:52:48] There's a lot of them organizations where you're like, how hard are you testing, really? It's a multiple choice. [2:52:57] all throughout camp randomly, you're not really testing. Right. Because we have to remember that Alistair Overeem, when he fought Brock Lesnar, was tested. [2:53:08] And that is the juiciest man that's ever walked the face of planet Earth. The Alistair Overeem that fought Brock Lesnar is the juiciest guy I've ever seen fight. It was horse meat. And I wish he could keep juicing. I do. I think we would have seen a different result. If you let Alistair stay juicy and stay 265 with world-class kickboxing skills. And also, he was so jacked that he could kind of hide from punches. [2:53:38] Especially in K1 When he had those big gloves Bro when he would shell up So he's got biceps and shoulders And then traps Everything's all protected And he's got that high guard And he's coming in like this Throwing bombs And he looks like a superhero He looks like a guy from a fucking comic book Yeah let's just let everyone juice If you want to juice just everyone juice Let's make it an even playing field Instead of let's try to catch who's not Or let's catch who's juicing Would you if they just opened the gates? Okay

[2:54:07] Okay. I'll start it off by saying yes. When I was younger, I was like, no, I'd never juice. I want to be all natural to show everything, like to show I'm just that good. Then I was like, as I got older and seen it, [2:54:19] I was like, nah. [2:54:23] I would. But that's like, I remember I fought Eric Anders for LFA, right? And they have pictures of him on the scale, the day of the fight, 222. [2:54:33] 223s, one of them two, right? I'm stepping in. I don't even really cut. I'm stepping in like 194. I'm young. I don't cut really anything. That time I did cut a lot. That was the first fight I cut a lot for because I was lifting like crazy and I wasn't really doing nothing else because I was in Louisiana. I used to train with Rich Clemente. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, you know, he's crazy as hell. So I was training there, but I was lifting more than anything. But anyway, I was probably like 196-ish, 197. No more than 200 for sure. No questions asked. [2:55:03] And they come in the back that night and they're like, hey, we're drug testing you. [2:55:10] I said, what? [2:55:11] He said, yeah, we're going to drug test you. It's random. I said, well, if it's random, is he getting drug tested too? They're like... [2:55:17] Nah. [2:55:18] I said, hold on. So you're telling me the man who's weighing over 220 and just weighed 185 exact yesterday. [2:55:26] It's not getting tested, but the guy who's only weighing like... [2:55:29] 14 whatever pounds more is getting tested i pulled up my shirt i said does it look like i'm on fucking steroids does it look like it i said give me some credit bro if i was gonna take it i promise you i would look like it and they're like i'm sorry bro but this is it's just a job i was like all right let's go get it done but it's just how did you randomly test only a few people on a roster that has to be like a budget thing

[2:55:51] That has to be a budget thing. Texas commission. That's crazy. But that must be like they don't want to spend money on everybody. I don't know. If you test one guy on the card, you should have to test everybody. Yeah, I think it was a total of three or four guys is what they said. [2:56:04] that they tested on the whole card. If you're testing a guy, you have to test his opponent. Dude. You have to. That's crazy. I still, to this day, I laugh at it. I'm like, come on, bro. Every time someone asks me, like, everyone just texts you. Come on, bro. There was a few fights where they stopped. They wouldn't let a guy fight because in the TRT days, they did test to see what people's levels are. And one guy, I don't want to say his name, but one guy was so high that they canceled the main event. Really? Yeah. They canceled the main event at the weigh-in. [2:56:32] Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. He was so juicy. They were worried that he was going to die. They were like, you could – like your levels are – whatever you fucking did, you should not be fighting with this level of testosterone in your system. Did you ever – Also on TRT. So it wasn't like this guy is just some genetic freak like Yol Romero coming out of the Cuban sports program. No, it wasn't – He's a special human too. That's a special human. Yeah. Did you ever hear of a guy – [2:56:58] Clovis Hancock. He died in the fight. I think it was for... [2:57:04] Legacy or LFA, I fought him. [2:57:08] Then his next fight, he died in the cage and they brought him back. [2:57:13] whoa yeah cpr it's it was all over the internet i fought that dude i was like no way i saw that next day i seen it like yeah they had to give him cpr till the ambulance uh wow got him loaded up and taken to the hospital his heart just stopped yeah wow never obviously never allowed to fight again but obviously yeah man crazy wanted to oh my god he probably did bro he was funny i ain't gonna just have that dog in them they don't care cyborg wanted to fight again after he got his skull

[2:57:43] going to fight again after that. So here it is. Can you imagine being in the audience watching that? [2:57:48] They're doing fucking CPR on it, dude. [2:57:52] Oh, my God. That's so scary. Yeah, yeah. I remember him. He was the cut man for the show. That's so scary. [2:57:56] Yeah, man, it's crazy. Well, thank God they have those EMTs on standby. And, you know, these organizations, they do their very best to screen people and make sure that they're as healthy as possible. The EFC does a real good job with that. Five minutes. [2:58:10] dead for five minutes. He's dead for five minutes? The cut man was the guy that was giving him CPR. It wasn't even the EMTs. Oh, my God. Thank God the cut man knew CPR. Holy shit, dude. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, you know, reminds you, this is not a game. It's a crazy-ass fucking sport. [2:58:26] So what's next for you? Do you know? Do they have you lined up for anything? No. I've been pushing. Hopefully, Drickus. Hopefully, March, April at the latest. [2:58:37] So do you need that much time to prepare? Is that how you'd like to? Yeah, I just kind of [2:58:43] I started training again today, matter of fact. [2:58:48] So training, dieting. Maybe that'll get him excited about fighting you. Huh? Maybe that'll get him excited about fighting you. Who knows, man? Maybe that's a trap. Maybe that's a trap. If I was Drikus, I'm like, this motherfucker probably has a full six-pack if he takes his shirt off. He probably rips his butt. Six-pack of rolls. He's ready to go. He's just bullshitting, saying he hasn't been training to goad me into a fight. Yeah, man. So Drikus is the guy that you're hoping for. Yes, sir. [2:59:08] And it makes sense. It's just the right time. Like I said, Imovolve is going to wait for the champion. He earned his spot. They just announced Fluffy and Sean. So what's left? It's just me and him. It's a good fight, too. It'll be a great fight to watch. And a good fight.

[2:59:23] For you, obviously, fighting former champion, and for Drakus, that's a... [2:59:31] That's the kind of fight you need at this point. You need to turn back the young lions. I've been trying to fight him since he got into the UFC. [2:59:37] I just felt like, I still feel this way. I feel like he's the luckiest guy I've ever seen. Like, don't get me wrong, he does have a couple fights now, but before he got the belt, I always said, like, he's the luckiest guy. Like, Marcus Perez was beating his ass. [2:59:50] ass. Marcus Perez wanted to do something crazy and went to throw a spinning elbow. Jerkis was throwing a body shot when he was throwing the spinning elbow and he hit him right in the mouth. [3:00:00] Drick has hit Marcus right in the mouth. Out. [3:00:03] I don't think you can call that lucky. I don't know. I know what you're saying, but he finds a way to win. The dude's a dog. He is a dog. He finds a way to win. I mean, think about some of them fights that were just like the Adesanya fight. He just kept coming and found a way to win. Yeah, I do like that about him. The Robert Whittaker fight, we took Whittaker out in the first round. You can't. There's no luck. No, you're right. That one, I don't see luck in that one. There's a lot of his fight. I think that was a great strategy. He's a fucking animal, dude. Yeah, he.

[3:00:33] about each other, he can joke, talk shit, whatever the case. But I loved the fight. [3:00:38] Because I know he's coming to fight like he's coming to kill for sure. I love that. I don't want a guy that's like I've had him, but I don't like the guys that just want to hug like he's trying to hurt me. I love that like that nervousness brings out the best version of me because I'm nervous like who's not nervous of another man. He's trying to hurt me and his to me one of his best attributes is. [3:01:03] is exactly what you said. You describe it as he finds a way to win. That's a great way. [3:01:09] For me, I'm just like, that dude can dig deep. Same exact thing. Look, even in the Hamzat fight, even in the Hamzat fight, remember the fifth round? Yep. Fifth round, he's on top, dropping bombs on Hamzat at one point in time. It was a little too late, and he didn't get him out of there, but he was not giving up. Yeah. He just was getting dominated. Right. There's a difference. For sure. He was still trying to find a way to win. But I love that. That motivates me by itself. I love hearing that. I want a guy that's going to try to come kill me, because what's the worst that's going to happen? He knocks me out? [3:01:38] Okay. [3:01:40] Okay. [3:01:41] Like, that's what we came to do anyway. Any man could do it. I've been TKO'd before. Like... [3:01:46] Alright, cool. But I can do it to you, too. You know? So, I love that aspect of the fight. That's my favorite thing. That's what motivates me about the fight more than the number. The danger. Yeah. I like that. And I feel like I really, truly haven't had that in a while. Like, a true, like...

[3:02:05] Some guys look at it as a sport. [3:02:07] And some guys really mean it. Like, I'm trying to hurt you. [3:02:10] And I like that. Like, it brings that out in me, too, because, like, I'm trying to hurt you. All right, you're going to try to hurt me? I'm going to try to hurt you. Or, you know, I don't know. But that's just how I look at the fight, and it really, like, excites me. Like, that's that demonic side of me coming out. [3:02:24] Let's see. I'm ready. Well, I love hearing that, and I love the fight. I hope you get it. Thank you. And thanks for being here, man. It was great talking to you. Let everybody know how they can find you on social. Yeah, on Instagram, at BrennanAllen. [3:02:37] 185. [3:02:39] or B underscore Allen 185. And that's really where I'd be. I'm just kind of chill. I'm low key. All right, brother. Well, hopefully next time I'll talk to you. It's after a victory. Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. My pleasure, brother. It's such a pleasure being here with all you guys. Thank you so much. My pleasure. All right. Bye, everybody. [3:03:08] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [3:03:19] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [3:03:33] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier.

[3:04:03] best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [3:04:17] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. Listen up. Blue Chew just dropped something wild. They're calling it Blue Chew Gold. And honestly, the name fits. The stuff is setting a whole new standard for performance in the bedroom. It's not your typical blue pill. [3:04:47] for mental arousal and connection. It's not just physical, it's the mindset too. Blue Chew gets it. Sex is not just about being able to perform, it's about actually wanting to. And I've got a special deal for you listeners. Right now, when you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with the promo code ROGAN. You'll also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. [3:05:17] more details and important safety information.